The Tennessee Centennial Golf Course is pictured above in Oak Ridge on Thursday, Dec. 10, 2015. (Photo by John Huotari/Oak Ridge Today)
Note: This story was last updated at 10:50 a.m. Dec. 15.
Despite some opposition, the Oak Ridge City Council on Monday approved a $325,000 transfer for operations at Tennessee Centennial Golf Course.
About $225,000 of the transfer, a cash infusion, would be for outstanding accounts payable, including for expenses that include clothing in the pro shop, a management fee, fertilizer, and irrigation costs. Another $100,000 is operational funding for the winter, including maintenance of the greens.
It’s the first non-debt related transfer from the city’s General Fund to the Golf Course Fund since the golf course was built, Oak Ridge City Manager Mark Watson said. Separately, the city still owes about $3 million in debt-related bond payments on the golf course. It’s expected to be paid off in five years.
Oak Ridge City Council member Trina Baughn cast the only vote against the operating transfer. All six of the other City Council members voted “yes.”
Watson said the golf course, which has whittled its staff down to four full-time employees, was affected by several factors this past year, most notably weather.
“This has been a difficult year,” Watson said. “There was not enough revenues coming in from the rounds of golf to pay for the operations side…Right now, we have to take care of vendors that need to be paid.”
He said there were 60 days this year, or about two months, when 20 rounds of golf or less were played. There were also costs associated with the February freeze, including broken pipelines that leaked and had to be repaired in the clubhouse ceiling.
“We really need a cash infusion,” Watson said. “We know of no other way we can do this.”
Beginning last winter, the city manager said earlier, Centennial faced major long-term freezes in February that destroyed significant patches of turf, requiring re-sodding and maintenance. Additional fertilizer treatments and turf repairs were needed.
“This is the first time we’ve had to do this,” Watson said. “I think this will get the ship righted.”
Several of those who voted in favor of the transfer said the money was due, and the city had to pay the bills.
“We have a contract in force,” Oak Ridge Mayor Warren Gooch said.
“We can’t refuse to pay them,” said City Council member Rick Chinn. “We owe this money.”
The golf course, one of two in the city, remains controversial two decades after it was built and opened in 1996, part of the Parcel A development in east Oak Ridge. Some critics raise questions about whether the surrounding residential development has been significant enough to justify building the golf course and continue paying debt on it. But current city officials point out that the decision to build the course was made under a former City Council and former city manager.
Baughn said the golf course has not been profitable.
“The taxpayers have poured a ton of money into this golf course that we never wanted,” she said. “It was sold to the public as self-sustaining.”
But Nick Bednar, regional operations director for golf course contractor Billy Casper Golf, said Centennial has been profitable in the past. Some years are good, and some years are bad, he told City Council.
Overall, it’s sustainable, Bednar said. Officials said they are working hard to promote the golf course and bring in new business. They said there is a new manager, Don Tillar Jr., who is working diligently to improve the spring leagues and tournament schedules, and the course is being aggressively marketed to customers.
“I feel very confident that we have some momentum in our business,” Bednar said.
This was an unusual year, he said. The ice storm, which affected various operations in Oak Ridge for about two weeks, had lasting damage on the turf at the golf course, and Centennial was closed for the longest time it’s ever been closed.
Still, Council members raised questions about whether the City Council would again be asked for money for Centennial.
Baughn has advocated for selling the golf course.
She cited numbers that city officials said they weren’t aware of that showed overall revenues since 1998 have been $18 million, and expenditures have been $20 million.
“It hasn’t been profitable,” Baughn said. The contractor is being paid to operate Centennial at a loss, she said. “At what point do we cut our losses and say ‘enough is enough?'”
The clubhouse at Tennessee Centennial Golf Course is pictured above on Thursday, Dec. 10, 2015. (Photo by John Huotari/Oak Ridge Today)
But Bednar said operations were profitable in 2010, 2012, and 2013.
“We have added money to the operating account in three of the past five years,” he said. “It is not too far in the distant past.”
Other city officials—including Watson, Chinn, and Council members Chuck Hope and Ellen Smith—suggested that selling the golf course is not a viable option.
“I don’t think that’s the solution,” Chinn said. “We’re stuck.”
Officials said the city still owes $3 million on Centennial and would probably get a fraction of that if the course were sold, citing another East Tennessee course that sold for less than $1 million.
Most of the residents who spoke at Monday night’s meeting seemed to be in favor of the operational transfer.
It’s another recreational facility, said former Oak Ridge Fire Chief Mack Bailey, who is also a golfer. He said he’s not aware of any other recreational facilities in Oak Ridge that make money, even ones that do charge fees.
“Golf courses are parks,” said one resident who lives on Rockbridge Greens Boulevard, near the golf course. “You have to look at it as a park.”
He said Centennial is a tough course with one of the best layouts in the area—an excellent facility—and the people running it are doing the best they can with limited resources.
Golf carts are pictured above at Centennial Golf Course on Thursday, Dec. 10, 2015. (Photo by John Huotari/Oak Ridge Today)
City Council member Charlie Hensley said the golf course needs to make reasonable money, but doesn’t have to make money. He suggested it’s an important asset to help attract new residents and young families.
Baughn responded to the comparisons between the golf course and recreational facilities.
“This is an elitist recreational facility that most of the community can’t afford,” she said.
She proposed trying to find other alternatives, and she made an unsuccessful motion to reduce the operational transfer by $70,000, which is the amount to be paid to Billy Casper Golf.
“Billy Casper managed this for the past 15 years,” Baughn said. “They obviously haven’t done a good job.”
But her motion failed due to a lack of a second.
More information will be added as it becomes available.Â
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Philip W Nipper says
First let me say I am no golfer. However listening to the discussion last night it sounds like we have a well designed and challenging course that has lured golfers over the years to play the course. It appears that we are loosing customers primarily due to some ground conditions and the cart paths. Repair and better maintenance of the grounds and the paths should be the number one priority followed by better and more promotions / marketing. “If you build it they will come”. We built it, now we need to do a much better job of maintaining it. The current contract with the operator appears to be in need of re-negotiation as well. Seems like it is way too easy for them to do nothing or to do the bare minimum at our expense vice theirs. Much like many of our city streets, the golf course appears to be crumbling under our own feet and nothing or very little is being done to remedy the problem. A plan of action between the city and the operator needs to be discussed, formulated, agreed on and acted upon ASAP before we loose even more golfers to other area courses. I think it is way too late for the city to get out of the golfing business but it is never too late to identify problems / root causes and enact corrections. This should be happening at least on a quarterly basis between the city, the golfing public and the operator. If the current operator can’t do the job, then maybe its time to find someone who can.
Charlie Jernigan says
Couldn’t agree more. This was one discussion that needed to happen. The operator has committed to bring back to the City Council, not only the plans to attract customers, but also a first pass at the estimated cost of the needed improvements for the January work session.
I was also impressed by the statements from the golfers who were not wealthy 1%’ers, but were more likely to be retired and enthusiastic about the game and especially about the quality of this course.
Philip W Nipper says
Yes I agree Charlie. Maybe it is a good thing that the city owed on some outstanding bills so the whole issue was forced into the daylight for all to see. I think City Council needs to keep this issue on their radar screen and provide updates to the public on a regular basis. Discussion is good but action is better. The issues out there need to get corrected and a better maintenance / marketing plan formed. Maybe with some additional prodding and constant oversight it will happen. I grow weary of hearing about weather issues. All courses in the area have been and are subject to the same weather as ours. Other courses seem to be able to cope better with the weather than ours. I think maybe that some general “pride in ownership” is lacking and the course needs to placed on the front burner. The squeaky wheel gets the grease as the saying goes however in this case I feel that our leadership / management have become deaf.
Matt Bailey says
You may very well be correct. A fresh set of ideas – with community input- might help. Mayor Gooch asked for more involvement, I believe, by council. Let’s see what they come back with. Certainly if you look at the Tennessee football field you have to wonder if there’s a correlation based on similar grasses and the damage suffered by both. Who knows.
Raymond Charles Kircher says
Matt, really? You haven’t been looking at the MONTHLY submitted fiscal accounts payable sent by Billy Casper Golf Management to COR. You think the revenue stream rate taxpayers are getting with UT Football turf is the same round as played on Centennial Golf Course which is somehow kept separate from Knoxville’s Billy Casper accounts? Strange days here in Oak Ridge. And Ms. Foster of Chattanooga is throwing more mud on Oak Ridge with Fleischman clearly implying Chattanooga is a better fit for ORNL and a move is in the works. Very strange, it is indeed. We don’t need this golf course if ORNL is going to focus opening up new business in Chattanooga. And the citizens are paying for our Chamber of Commerce? Oh, Ha! I wonder what course our Chamber is playing on?
Will Smith says
ORNL isn’t moving to Chattanooga. Mr. Kircher obviously read the link provided is another thread, yet he still doesn’t understand that simple piece of reality which somehow isn’t very surprising. And the citizens of Oak Ridge aren’t paying for the Chamber of Commerce, at least not with tax dollars. One wonders if Mr. Kircher thinks that the Knoxville Municipal Golf Course and Whittle Springs, both managed by Billy Casper, are “in the hood” as I think he called Centennial? The stuff just keeps flowing, doesn’t it? When the bulldozers start on the mall property, undoubtably it wiil just be a conspiracy to colect tax dollars, right?
Raymond Charles Kircher says
Undoubtedly both Billy Casper courses in Knoxville are considered hood courses, yet somehow centennial manages to be talked about to be just below them, as the reciprocity is lacknig for Oak Ridge Billy Casper members, shelves empty, and a city council that just doesn’t care except for a glance at the books bi-annually. Pffffftttttttt!
Will Smith says
Since the courses are not owned by the same entity, why would anyone who understands the concept think that there should be “reciprocity”? Of course one can only imagine what on earth Mr. Kircher actually means with that comment.
Raymond Charles Kircher says
When are you planning on playing, my fake Oak Ridge Today parasite? Being a links member, my membership can play multiple courses. Seems you still don’t see Centennial isn’t linked, MUCH LESS EVEN LOOKED AT! You are a stalker, is what I meant.
Will Smith says
One can only just say, wow. Mr. Kircher thinks that because he is a “links member” at Whittle Springs (which entitles him to play at the Knoxville Municipal course), then he should also be entitled to play at Centennial. The connection being that all three are managed by Billy Casper. But the three courses aren’t owned by the same entities: Whittle Springs and Knoxville Municipal are owned by Knox County (which is why his membership allows him to play at both courses), and Centennial is owned by Oak Ridge. How illogical does one have to be to assume that the contracted management company makes the rules for the courses that they manage. Wonder if Mr. Kircher thinks that he is entitled to play at the other 137 courses across the United States that Billy Casper manages?
Matt Bailey says
Raymond did u even read what I wrote or do you just throw all this in a blender and mix it up? My question was specifically about the turf-not revenue. I’m attempting to address a specific concern that cost money to fix. I give up. Your conversations are like hitting a golf ball in a clubhouse. Everybody duck, we don’t know which wall he’s bouncing off of next.
Raymond Charles Kircher says
It may be you don’t say what you mean. I get that. I don’t care if you don’t look at the monthly statements, but I would stop waiting around for someone to yell duck, the course isn’t a performer.
Will Smith says
I was struck by the seeming similarity between the golf course discussion and an article in today’s paper regarding the lack of interest by bidders in outsourcing operations in state parks due to the condition of the facilities. When something is built, whether it be a golf course, a school administration building, a park, roads, or anything else, one must spend money for maintenance and upkeep, whether profit is there or not. If you don’t, you just guarantee failure.
Joseph Lee says
As I stated last night, it is far too late in the game to think selling off the golf course is going to solve the problem. All that would do is lock in a loss. I thought every penny counts around here. We are too close to the end to take that hit. Are there problems? Yes. Can they be fixed? Yes. Let’s get to it. The vote was 6/1. Ms. Baughn, do the math on that.
David Allred says
It’s pretty interesting to me to see how quickly this problem was settled and how quickly it could be financed on the back’s of taxpayers vs. the Clark Park issue at this same time last year. You would have thought 300K would have killed us all last year. There’s VERY LITTLE DOUBT to me on the “why” and “how” things like this get A) Brought to the public’s attention one day and B) Approved so rapidly. I applaud Councilwoman Baughn for her vote. It was the right vote.
Joseph Lee says
Mr. Allred, the difference is a project with a twenty year history that is city owned and a project that is not a project at this time, has no history as city property and is owned by DOE. Your Councilwoman made a fool of herself, again. Do the math. Thank you.
Matt Bailey says
David, you’re of course now suggesting that the COR NOT pay its bills. Some of those bills are 120 days late. You’ve overlooked the fact that the management group was required to return with some ideas and solutions for future improvements, something that apparently wasn’t required before. Undoubtedly this is a tough situation, but to suggest (as she did) that we should just sell it is just poor business, based on the selling price of Avalon.
David Allred says
Matt, whether or not keeping the course or selling the course is the right option, the idea that we’re 120 days late and having 7 day conversations prior to flashing $350,000 should be concerning to EVERY citizen, not just Ms. Baughn.
Sam Hopwood says
Matt, the poor business was getting into the golfing arena in the first place but that is water under the bridge. When a private business is not making money, they shut it down and yes, they take a loss but they do NOT continue bleeding. But that won’t happen in OR since we operate a little differently than other folks. Oh well…. It’s only money.
Matt Bailey says
Sam, it’s a 20/20 hindsight thing isn’t it? Though I recall we’ve been told we should be more like Knoxville and Farragut. I guess just not in golf courses. If we sell it – and how long would that take – we’d still owe a boatload of money (maybe $2-$3 million). There’s no great answer. But what good does shutting it down do? Especially after the worst winter ever? Folding the tent seems small to me. Can’t we wait and see what new ideas and promotions they come back with first before we default on our debts? One time Sam I’d love to see you come up with a positive solution. It’s Christmas- a season of miracles. Maybe if we actually tried a positive approach to a problem we’d get one. The sky can’t fall everyday. It’s easy to complain. I see too much of that and very little attempt to fix something. Merry Christmas.
Andy Hayes says
Trina was not wrong in her assessment
of Centennial Golf Course. Nick Bednar, regional operations director
for golf course contractor Billy Casper Golf, said Centennial has
been profitable in the past. Some years are good, and some years are
bad, he told City Council. OK.. On the good years wouldn’t it have
been a good idea for Billy Casper Golf to put some funds back to
allow for conditions such as we had last year? This is called sound
business practice. Other comparable courses do this. You cannot just
put the profits in your pocket in the good times and then expect the
City to pay for improper management of funds. Oh wait. The City
agreed contractually to bailing them out. Officials said the city
still owes $3 million on Centennial and would probably get a fraction
of that if the course were sold. Someone really backed us into a
corner.
Matt Bailey says
Andy, Ms. Baughn spent equal amounts of time going back in time 20 years (which we can do nothing about) and demanding the CC look at options. Yet amazingly, as usual, she provides no solution herself, except to “just sell it”. Which likely wouldn’t happen quickly or be profitable. Yes, it’s a tough situation. What it requires might be some unique ideas. If she truly wanted a solution, you’d have thought she’d have asked Bednar what new ideas they had in the pipeline! Or perhaps she might have asked why Centennial’s pricing is apparently higher than Knoxville’s courses. My final question: I heard no one claim that there had been improper management of funds. Perhaps I missed that. Do you have an example?
Matt Bailey says
Or internet service? Or cell phone service? Or Starbucks? Or cigarettes? Or alcohol? The list goes on and on. Interesting, isn’t it?
Andy Hayes says
I’m not saying that Trina has the
answers. Council did most of this years ago. Done deal.. There is no
reasonable answer for the Golf Course now. We are stuck with it. No
matter what. No improper management of funds. I am only applying
basic accounting principles.. When times and weather are good the
Managers of the course should have put some funds in a reserve. All
other private courses do this. You don’t see the Oak Ridge Country
Club asking for assistance. Golf courses have to have expect that
weather is not perfect here. This is East Tennessee. I know that
Council had no other option on their vote. The Contract is iron clad.
Perhaps you could send your comments and suggestions to all of
Council. They listen. Trina should not be singled out for at least
having some ideas. I don’t hear anyone else within Council or City
Management exploring any options. Maybe they are but they are not
talking about it with the Public.. I really don’t see a solution.
Andy Hayes says
$29 a MONTH to play at the Golf Course. No wonder it is hurting.. It should cost you that to play 18 holes each time..
Raymond Charles Kircher says
That is restricted twilight play. Nobody with money is getting that membership. Trina is right about most of the people in Oak Ridge don’t play Centennial. The Billy Casper full membership 7 day and 5 day are reciprocal for the two courses in Knoxville, similar price but twice the hood course.
Raymond Charles Kircher says
How many of ya’ll play other Billy Casper managed courses? When you go onto a Billy Casper course you already know you are playing in the hood. Of course city council took out of the magic money pot to pay for this. That is because they cannot get anyone else to manage the course. They might as well make Centennial a citizen board, because they cannot get anyone else to fill the course. Besides, when the Ray Evans landslide happened at Centennial thus closing out $Millions from city council reach, what do they do to the shuttered home sites developer, give him a job as city liaison for development at $40,000.00 large a year. BRILLIANT!
How much does Billy Casper charge us for fertilizer compared to this city buying fertilizer for all of its ball fields?
Joseph Lee says
Raymond, you shouldn’t drink so much this early in the day. It makes you sound stupid and ignorant. Just a suggestion. Enjoy. Thank you.
Raymond Charles Kircher says
So you don’t play; glad to see you are representing Council Member Baughn’s perspective.
Matt Bailey says
Raymond, I worked on the ballparks as a summer job two years and my brother two years. Even in the great days of OR not a drop of fertilizer hit those ball fields!!
Honestly, I can’t translate the rest of your comments.
Raymond Charles Kircher says
Landslides in Centennial Village and by the Golf Course, the city coming in to pay for the landslides, the landslides have affected many home sites, Mr. Monday’s apartments, city utilities already laid up there, and everyone coming into Oak Ridge sees the falling home sites from Solway bridge. Ray Evans is a pseudo developer who has had the city buy his home sites he couldn’t sell in one of the most expensive tracts of land in Oak Ridge? Shame, then Trina is right, if the city amenities are in such low use that fertilizer isn’t needed, then it is time to close the Billy Casper management team, and move on. It is like a cancer; if you catch it too late, it has already spread to the rest of the body and death is imminent. Matt, just to catch you up, this is the city’s RFP for a ball field:
“Furnish all labor, materials, and equipment necessary
to re-establish and maintain a Bermuda grass athletic field as specified
within. The selected contractor will use athletic field turf management practices
to restore the fields to a quality Bermuda grass athletic turf. The goal in the
first year is to achieve at least seventy-five percent (75%) Bermuda grass
coverage, eighty-five percent (85%) coverage by the end of the second year, and
ninety-five percent (95%) coverage with high turf density by the end of the
third year of maintenance under this contract. In subsequent years ninety-five
percent (95%) coverage with high turf density will be maintained.”
“Fertilization:
Provide schedule and cost for fertilization of the
fields.”
Ray Evans says
Another bold face lie Raymond. Have I crapped in your fruit loops at some point? Really can’t understand your baseless, libelous, personal rants about me.
John…Again I would respectfully ask you to require Mr. Kircher to abide by your posted guidelines.
Will Smith says
How exciting. Mr. Kricher demonstrates that he can you the Anderson County Property Assessor website and look up who owns property in Oak Ridge. In this case, the property where the Centennial Apartments are situated is still officially owned by the Oak Ridge Industrial Development Board by virtue of the tax abatement that was given to the developer. The apartments are managed by the Regis Management Group which is located at the Dallas address.
Ray Evans says
The slides adjacent to Centennial Golf Course are on a failed 16 acre single family development. The property is owned by Volunteer State Bank. The City has never invested in that 16 acre tract in any form or fashion.
The Centennial Village Apartments, a totally different tract of land, was purchased last summer by a group from Dallas.
Trina Baughn says
Mr. Evans –
Mr. Kircher may be confused about your role or roles as they relate to the various Parcel A developments. Could you clarify what those were or did you have no affiliations in those developments?
Ray Evans says
Enough of your libelous bull crap about “my landslide” Raymond.
For the last time the slide did not occur on any property that I ever had any interest. It occurred on an adjacent property. I and my partner did however assist the City in the solution to the problem by donating a piece of property to the City allowing the re-routing of a sanitary sewer line that was contributor to the slide.
John…I would respectfully ask you to require Mr. Kircher to abide by your posted guidelines.
Levi D. Smith says
This reminds of the episode of The Simpsons where Springfield goes broke after using all of the city’s money to buy a broken monorail. Can anyone name one notable event that ever occurred at this golf course? I could understand funding the gold course if it was like the Oak Ridge marina, where crew teams from universities from across the country come to compete. A golf course just seems to appeal to a very small demographic that isn’t representative of Oak Ridge. If it hasn’t turned a profit in over 20 years, then one has to ask why are we still sinking taxpayer money into it?
Will Smith says
Want to know something that is really sad and pathetic? Reading on the Facebook Oak Ridge groups, there are people who don’t understand that the Centennial Golf Course is owned by the city. There is a complaint about the city “bailing out a business” and speculation that council members have a “business interest” in the course. But such things are par for the course in Oak Ridge….
johnhuotari says
Hello, all.
Thank you for reading Oak Ridge Today and participating in the discussion.
I wanted to let you know that I closed this thread and the two earlier threads on the mall redevelopment because I thought they got off track. I want to remind commenters that we ask you to not get personal, to use your real name, and stick to the issues. To expand on this last point (stick to the issues), we ask you not to post the same comment or a substantially similar comment in multiple threads.
This is a reminder only to the few people who haven’t been following the guidelines. Thank you to all of you who do follow the guidelines. We appreciate it.
I hope that helps. Thank you for your understanding and patience.
Please let me know if you have any questions or comments at (865) 951-9692 or [email protected].
Thank you,
John