The Oak Ridge City Council on Monday rejected a request to remove resident Joe Lee from a city housing board. Pictured above at left is Council member Anne Garcia Garland, who made the request. Also pictured are Council members Trina Baughn and Chuck Hope.
Note: This story was last updated at 11:20 p.m.
Those who wanted to remove Joe Lee from a municipal housing board said he had shown contempt for Oak Ridge City Council members, insulted traffic camera critics, embarrassed the city, and bullied others.
But those who wanted to keep him on the board said Lee ought to be given a second chance. They said he had performed well on the board—the Oak Ridge Board of Building and Housing Code Appeals—particularly when considering the city’s code violation cases against the Applewood Apartments.
On Monday, the Oak Ridge City Council rejected the request to remove Lee from the board. The proposal failed in a 2-4 vote.
Voting in favor of the removal were Council members Anne Garcia Garland and Trina Baughn. Voting against it were Mayor Pro Tem Jane Miller and Council members Charlie Hensley, Chuck Hope, and David Mosby.
Oak Ridge Mayor Tom Beehan was absent.
Garcia Garland requested the removal after Lee sent her a March 28 e-mail that said she is aligned with and caters to “nut jobs” and belongs to a clan of “camera crazies.”
Joe Lee, left, tells Oak Ridge City Council members he supports the traffic cameras in March.
Lee took aim at camera opponents and the 4-3 Council vote in March that lets the Redflex traffic camera contract expire this month after five years of operations in Oak Ridge. In his e-mail to Garcia Garland, Lee said he was surprised to learn during the March meeting that the “clown car has a comfortable seating capacity of four.†The March decision on the traffic cameras “blew a $500,000 hole in the annual city budget,†Lee said.
In prepared remarks on Monday, Garcia Garland said she does not wish to be advised by “anyone who holds the Council up to ridicule.
“With this written and broadly circulated message, his pronouncements have taken an ugly turn, which civil people don’t stoop to,†she said. “It seems to me that to treat Council publicly with written disrespect and verbal abuse is unacceptable behavior for a board member.â€
A few residents also argued in favor of Lee’s removal.
“I think the Council has no choice but to set limits on this kind of behavior,” resident Charles Jones said Monday.
But others said Lee should get a second chance, and Council members should have “thick skins.†They said Lee’s contributions on the board have been important, he had perfect meeting attendance in 2012 and 2013, and “he wouldn’t hurt a fly.â€
“His bark is worse than his bite,” resident Helen Jernigan said.
“To remove Joe Lee or anyone from a city board because we did not like his criticism, in my opinion, is retaliatory for ruffling our feathers and speaking out against one or more of us,†Miller said. “This is indeed a slippery slope.â€
Lee remained silent during the debate. Asked for comment after the vote, Lee said: “I am just glad that that’s over with. That was just a waste of time—more drama. We don’t need more drama.”
Council does not remove board members very often. But the seven-member body did remove a member of the city’s beer board in July 2013 after two other members of that board said he had been disruptive and argumentative, and turned what had been smooth-running and efficient meetings into “veritable circuses.â€
On the Board of Building and Housing Code Appeals, Lee has often been the fiercest critic of Applewood Apartments owner Joe Levitt, who has appeared before the board on issues related to apartment repairs and demolition orders. Lee and Levitt have frequently clashed.
More information will be added as it becomes available.
See previous story here.
Harry Pruitt says
Big mistake. His next assault may not just be a verbal one. Perhaps after the Miller and Hensley glowing endorsement they will persuade him to seek anger management help. One can always hope.
bill bradley says
I disagree. Public officials gotta have a thick hide. The two females on the council have yet to disassociate themselves from a lady who posts all over the internet (and here) claiming that other council members are possibly taking money from the red light folks, stating she feels the need to do bodily harm, etc. I could easily say “her next assault” because she’s been more vocal than Mr. Lee. Until those two council members publicly denounce those people who are obviously on their side who keep ranting and raving, making threats (which Mr. Lee didn’t do), etc. I don’t think Baughn and Garland have a leg to stand on!!
Peggy Tiner says
What is it you think we should worry about Mr. Pickney? I didn’t quite understand. Could you be a little more specific? I am interested in knowing.
johnhuotari says
Peggy, I was unable to confirm the identity of the commenter, so the comment was removed.
A note to those who comment: First, thank you for reading Oak Ridge Today. Second, if you do comment, we ask you to use your real, full name. If we are unable to confirm your identity, your comment will be removed. Thank you for understanding and for reading Oak Ridge Today.
Aaron Wells says
John, you’re doing a great job running this site. There are only so many hours in the day and policing a blog doesn’t help sell any advertising. Thanks for all you do to help keep Oak Ridge informed.
johnhuotari says
Thank you, Aaron.
Andrew Howe says
For the record, Mr. Lee did indeed make a death threat – not a huge one, nothing worse than the kinds most of us can make at times of stress and anger – but it was made none-the-less.
I held my tongue at the meeting because it wasn’t my fight, and I myself may have voted to keep him on the board were I in a council seat, because I’m sure he’s more than effective at what he does, and obviously cares very deeply about this city which counts for a great deal in my opinion, even if we don’t agree on all issues.
But instead of saying “no comment” or “I don’t recall doing that because I was so upset that evening” to the reporter, he denied making the threat altogether and implied Councilwoman Baughn was making things up (see original Knoxnews story on this for his quote). Because of my principals, and my firm belief that nobody in govt should ever speak bold untruths, his denial has forced me out of the shadows on this, despite my respect for his passion, hard work and volunteer spirit.
Everyone should have the right to say what they feel, even board members. But sadly, all things said have ramifications. I’m fully aware of the ramifications that may befall me from speaking openly about this. Freedom has it’s cost, I suppose. I sincerely hope I’m not looked at too unfavorably for being honest in this matter and following MY principles of truth, openness and integrity.
bill bradley says
I appreciate your comments though I’m not sure I understand them fully. Me personally, I feel that Ms. Baughn has been less than truthful on a couple of situations herself. Mr. Hensley’s comments that he feels Ms. Baughn is a bully herself speaks volumes to me.
Trina Baughn says
Mr. Bradley,
Would you allow me the courtesy of responding to what you believe I’ve been untruthful about?
bill bradley says
Your “culture of terror” was, I believe, completely unsubstantiated. To date, as far as I know, no O.R. teacher has come forward to validate your comments. Why in the world any responsible news organization would print your letter is a mystery to me. As I understand the situation, teachers with tenure are very difficult to terminate … so I have to wonder why no teacher has come forward to reiterate your comments. Now, I may have missed the news, but really, wouldn’t one expect that by now 50 teachers would have signed a petition stating their concerns and supporting you?
Ms. Baughn, with such a lack of an outcry of support from the teachers, doesn’t that lead the average person to question where you got your information, how much research you did, or did you create a situation to promote your agenda? Before the news conference in the summer, did you ever visit the high school? Walk the halls? Visit with teachers? When / where / who?
While I believe your agenda should be to promote O.R., all I see is the negativity from you and Ms. Garland. O.R. has plenty of concerns. It’s easy to whine and complain. The hard thing is to lead in a positive manner. An open letter welcoming the new administrators to O.R. would have been a more professional approach. Instead, you turned the spotlight on yourself and opened you up to the contempt that the city staff, fellow council members and residents too often exhibit towards you. And that affects every citizen of our city.
Harry Pruitt says
Well, lets see now. Since Trina made her comments on the school situation, ORHS has gone from one SR to two SR’s and an additional THREE ORPD officers are now stationed in an office at ORHS for a total of five ORPD officers now at ORHS. The Principal at RMS was transferred and the Principal at JMS moved to RMS and the school Super recently commented on the positive results at RMS. But that is all probably just a coincidence, don’t you think?
BTW, as Andrew stated, Joe Lee did not tell the truth but hey, he did it with passion. 🙂
bill bradley says
Honestly, I’m not privy to the internal workings of the school system, so I don’t know. How many of us are? Was that increase going to happen anyway … I don’t know what was in the works. Were there other reasons that a principal was moved? I don’t know. At that pay scale, I have to think more than one reason was involved. And maybe those reasons were positive reasons and NOT negative reasons. Perhaps his skills were needed more in one place than the other. Did you think the Super would comment that the results were less than positive? Do I think that one council member is / was solely responsible for anything? No, not likely.
Here’s what I do believe, though: Apparently there are those who DO think that one person is / has been solely responsible for anything at all. And that’s not only naive, but sad. Is it just possible that some people’s need for attention is so large that they demand the spotlight be on them? Somewhere along the line, doesn’t the phrase “spirit of cooperation” come into play? Her original letter screamed “me, me, me”. How about that area on our kindergarten report card that said: “Plays well with others”?
John Clark says
The transfer of Mr Lay to RMS had nothing to do with student discipline problems at RMS. The reported incidents of disciplinary problems at the high school were down for the 12 months ending in February over the previous 12 months but since the added SRO didn’t appear on the scene until late in that 12 month period, he had little impact. But none of that ever stops people from taking credit where none is due. And now we’re going to get another half page treatise in the paper by Ms Baughn that is nothing more than personal advertising.
Trina Baughn says
Mr. Bradley,
My primary “agenda†is to ensure transparency and accountability in local government. I believe both to be a requisite foundation towards ensuring a positive future for Oak Ridge.
A great number of parents, teachers and staff -did- express both agreement and appreciation for my bringing these issues to light. They just didn’t do it via a press conference or a coordinated rally by the mayor and BOE chairman.
I believe that Chief Akagi’s May memo*, the stories that have come to light since last summer, and the changes that have been made since all validate my concerns. I’ve continued to work behind the scenes with the ORPD and school staff towards improving the safety of our schools and will continue to do so. You can read about some of those efforts here:
http://trinabaughn.com/2014/03/26/march-2014-oak-ridge-schools-safety-update/
I will be writing a follow up column on training that I attended with 3 school principals and the ORPD. Be sure to watch for it.
Thank you for allowing me to address your concerns. Feel free to contact me directly at [email protected] if you have additional concerns.
Regards.
Trina Baughn
* You can read Chief Akagi’s initial memo outlining the obstacles he and his force had previously encountered prior to last summer
here: http://trinabaughn.com/2013/07/03/may-9th-memo-from-police-chief-akagi-re-ors-interference-with-orpd/
bill bradley says
Good morning. First, let me express my appreciation for anyone who runs for public office and wants to serve. Secondly, I think I’m correct your son serves in the military. If so, please extend my thanks for his service.
I have four points I’d like to address:
1) I asked you if you’d visited the schools. Walked the halls, spoken with teachers in their environment etc. You chose not to respond. The average person would take that to say “no”. I could call the staff at orhs, but that seems to be a waste of their valuable time. I assume you’d had to have signed in to visit the schools.
2) In your July 18 letter, you stated that you’d talk to some of the hundreds of departed teachers and parents. When? Who? You further said that teachers were leaving “in droves”. Leaving in droves is what UT football fans do in the 4th quarter. If those teachers retired, their retirement pay comes from the state, so why haven’t they come forward. They should have no fears. If those “droves” went elsewhere, they should have no fear speaking about the problems at OR schools. Again, with no group meeting, group petition, group letter to the editor, where’s your basis for your claims? CNN claims 50% of all workers are disgruntled. I’d expect you could list 25 of those “droves” of unhappy workers. Or 20. How about 15?
I think you lose the “transparency” conversation you referenced as part of your agenda.
3) I’m disappointed in your disparaging comments about the mayor and Keys Fillauer, here and earlier. Keys is one of the finest men to ever live in O.R. – I hold him in the same regard as Jim Helton, Don Bordinger, Lawrence Hahn, Shep Lauter, Emory Hale, and a ton of other great men and women in O.R.’s history. To paraphrase Lloyd Benson, I knew these great people and you ain’t one of ’em.
Mayor Beehan, I don’t know. But as I said, I respect anyone who runs for office and serves. He’s done it professionally and longer than you. His tenure demands your respect. It should be an honor to serve with these two men.
Lastly, I didn’t see the word “we” once in your response. I did see the word “I” five times. Great leaders build a coalition and lead from that. Especially when you’re an elected part of a council of multiple people.
Thank you for responding. I’ve done likewise, and I’m too old to continue this. Someone else please pick up the baton!!
Trina Baughn says
Good morning to you as well!
1. Yes, I have been in a number of our schools for a variety of reasons; however the discussions with school staff (past and present) , parents and police that contributed to my assessment did not occur in school halls. If I came to your place of employment, would you or your coworkers be open to sharing concerns of this nature with me? Would any employer afford anyone that kind of access in the first place?
2. The total turnover rate of staff in our schools is 50% over the last decade. Given that we have some of the highest paid teachers and principals in the state and given the individuals I have talked to that have left and gone to other TN systems, that statistic contributed to my characterization of the situation. I could list well over 25 people who left, but that would be highly inappropriate. If you watch for the annual articles that the Oak Ridger runs in August, they usually mention that 25-40 teachers/staff have left or been replaced. It would be a betrayal of confidence to name the individuals with whom I spoke. I would hope you could understand that.
3. I’m not sure how my statement about Mr. Fillauer and Mr. Beehan was disparaging. It is a fact that they called a press conference and encouraged people to come to council that evening.
4. As far as “I†verses “we,†I am working with countless individuals on a variety of issues. Many, but not all, of those endeavors are chronicled on my website. I was not elected to agree with my fellow council members. I was elected to represent Oak Ridgers based on my campaign promises to push for greater transparency and accountability. I feel we have a very long way to go on both fronts.
Thank you for conversing with me in a candid, but cordial manner, Mr. Bradley. I will pass along your comments to my son as well.
John Clark says
There is a gentleman who made a name for himself for claiming, often and loudly, that he had a list of subversives serving in the United States government. We all remember how that situation played out. We should also have the right to confront our accusers. Your “transparency” is about the color of the mud you throw.
Trina Baughn says
Mr. Clark,
I’m not getting your reference, but perhaps it was before my time. I hope you have a nice day and get to feeling better. I would try getting some fresh air. It’s really gorgeous out on the trails!
bill bradley says
You continue to do the politician two step and avoid or don’t address specifics. You’re a council member. Please don’t suggest that that relationship with teachers / administrators is the same as the private sector. That’s an insult to our intelligence.
Your numbers are suspicious if only because your past claims are still unsubstantiated. You can claim that it would be highly inappropriate to name names, but seriously, you have not named ONE. ONE … and you should be naming HUNDREDS. I’m sorry Ms. Baughn, I just thinking you’re throwing mud on the wall to see what sticks. I don’t want to believe this, but you cannot name ONE person. Therefore, I’m forced to call your hand on this. I think you’re pulling these numbers out of the blue to fit your agenda(s). I am aware that as of this date, still NO past or present teacher or administrator has stepped forward to support you claims. NOW, they may have and I’ve missed it, but I can’t find that information anywhere. Do you REALLY expect us to believe that ALL these people left because of “culture of terror”? That’s what you insinuating. NO retirements, no pregnant teachers, no promotions into other systems, no residence changes because their spouse got a better job elsewhere? Ms. Baughn, your claims just don’t hold water!
Re: the press conference, did you not expect that other people would call you out. Steve Reddick refuted every point you tried to raise. Did you think the remaining city officials would stand by while you fabricated “facts”. Yes, I’ve used the word fabricated because you still have produced not one supporter who was paid by the school system. I’m left with no option but to believe that you’ve been crying wolf all along.
The analogy you miss from John Clark is a fellow named Joseph McCarthy, who lied and misled the American public on a number of issues. I happen to agree with Mr. Clark, we may have the same situation here. And I find it incomprehensible that you don’t know this important part of our U.S. history.
I promise, I give up. To forget the past is to relive it. I hope we don’t.
Harry Pruitt says
Yes bill, it’s past time to pass the baton on to someone else. May I suggest untruthful Joe??
Happy Trails!!
Cindy McCullough says
I have to say that asking someone to publicly give up their sources, is just not something one should do. IF those sources decided to stand up and speak up, that is fine. If they don’t, it is not Trina Baughn’s role to name them. So that argument will not stand with me.
Personally, having a son at the high school, I don’t believe it has a culture of terror. There are problems, in my opinion, at the high school. They aren’t the great school they think they are, but they are a decent school.
Lastly, when someone pulls Joe McCarthy out, conversation is over. Just like in debates when someone pulls out Hitler. People stop listening to each other, if they were before hand, at that point.
Harry Pruitt says
It could not have been said much better. Thank you.
bill bradley says
Hi Cindy:
I really do understand your stance. But I wouldn’t ask you to believe me if I insinuated I’d spoken to a whole bunch of folks if I didn’t name at least one. Now, if she wanted to give the names to John and John himself did the research and wrote a story, I’d be more likely to believe that. She’s not a journalist, so protecting one’s sources don’t apply here, I don’t think. But again, no one seems to be coming forward saying “Yes, I spoke with Ms. Baughn and raised these concerns”.
The high school has problems, no doubt. Don’t they all? But, I see a lot of high profile, national awards coming out of the h.s. student body.
I didn’t bring out Joe McCarthy, another gentleman did. I just educated Ms. Baughn on who he was referring to, since she didn’t know. Now sure McCarthy and Hitler belong in the same sentence, though his actions were hideous, to be sure.
I promise…I’m so tired of this conversation, I’ve posted the last time… on this. Have a great evening.
Tim Collins says
Don’t you remember what you said just a few days ago? Here, let me paraphrase it back to you: Grow up, Harry. You and your divisive buddies lost. Get over it.
Harry Pruitt says
Hopefully you won’t be so supportive of abuse when he goes past verbal to physical. It may very well happen with his level of anger.
Hal Evans says
I wouldn’t put any money on it if I were you. It would be a very bad bet.
johnhuotari says
Several comments have been removed from this discussion because I was unable to confirm the commenter’s identity. I would like to remind those who comment on Oak Ridge Today to please use your real name. Any comments posted under fake names or pseudonyms will be removed. You can see the commenting guidelines above for more information. Thank you for reading Oak Ridge Today.