Aleta Ledendecker, secretary of Rationalists of East Tennessee, told the Oak Ridge City Council on Monday, Jan. 11, 2016, that no gods should be invoked at the openings of their meetings, and the Council should recognize that secular authority in government is not only sufficient but preferable. (Image from City of Oak Ridge video)
Note: This story was last updated at 3:34 p.m.
A member of Rationalists of East Tennessee told the Oak Ridge City Council that no gods should be invoked at the openings of their meetings, and the Council should recognize that secular authority in government is not only sufficient but preferable.
“In honor of separation of church and state, no deities need to nor should be invoked at the openings of your meetings,” said Aleta Ledendecker, secretary of Rationalists of East Tennessee. “Doing so gives the appearance if not actual governmental preference to one group of citizens over others.”
It was an unusual invocation. They are generally led by local pastors, ministers, or reverends of various faiths. The secular Monday night invocation by Ledendecker has apparently caused some backlash.
“The City Council is a civic body, not a religious one, so should recognize that secular authority in government is not only sufficient but preferable,” Ledendecker said.
In a twist on the usual invocation, Ledendecker asked audience members, some of whom objected to at least part of her message, to not bow their heads.
“Let us not bow our heads, but hold them high with eyes open so that we may keep them focused on the issues facing Oak Ridge,†Ledendecker said.
She said Oak Ridge is a very diverse community with many different views and opinions, and the city has a responsibility to all residents, showing favoritism toward none. There is also a growing diversity of religions, including those with no affiliation, Ledendecker said.
“This community is made stronger by the diversity within,” she said. “Over 200 years ago, our Constitution established a principle of inclusion as a shining example to the rest of the world, which has contributed to the astonishing success of our nation. When we forgot or ignore it, we turn our backs on the wisdom of the founding fathers and tarnish their legacy, weakening our society in the process.”
Oak Ridge City Council member Trina Baughn said she notified the city manager and the mayor before the meeting that she would be stepping out of the room during the invocation.
“This was not an act of protest, but simply a choice to not participate in something that I believed might assail my beliefs,” Baughn said. “While I may not support the content of the participant’s statements (I’ve yet to hear them), I do support their right to participate in the process just as much as any other religious representative.”
Council did not discuss the invocation afterward. The speakers at the invocation are scheduled through the Oak Ridge City Clerk’s Office well in advance of the meetings.
Ledendecker’s requests, made in a public setting and during an invocation, are certainly rare, if not unprecedented. Council members gave no indication of whether they would honor her requests.
The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld decidedly Christian prayers at the start of local council meetings, declaring them in line with long national traditions though the country has grown more religiously diverse, according to The Associated Press. The content of the prayers is not significant as long as they do not denigrate non-Christians or try to win converts, the court said in a 5-4 decision backed by its conservative majority in June 2014. (See also this Washington Post story.)
On Monday, Oak Ridge Mayor Warren Gooch cut off Ledendecker’s invocation after more than two minutes in order to begin the Pledge of Allegiance, and Baughn re-entered the room. The mayor said he doesn’t know who will give the invocation until the agenda is released, and he was cordial, courteous, and respectful to Ledendecker.
When the scheduled invocation speaker is unable to attend, he gives the invocation, Gooch said.
See the video of the City Council meeting here.
More information will be added as it becomes available.
Aleta Ledendecker, secretary of Rationalists of East Tennessee, told the Oak Ridge City Council on Monday, Jan. 11, 2016, that no gods should be invoked at the openings of their meetings, and the Council should recognize that secular authority in government is not only sufficient but preferable. (Image from City of Oak Ridge video)
Copyright 2015 Oak Ridge Today. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
Charlie Jernigan says
I am surprised that someone feels they are qualified to be a member of City Council, but cannot possibly stand to hear about any belief that may be contrary to their own.
Jeanne Hicks Powers says
Separation of church and state…… is the true issue here…
Mike Mahathy says
Separation of church and state, not separation of church from state. Oh how much the “rationalists” try to change it. Maybe CC should have people read the prayers of Washington, Lincoln, and FDR as invocation. Maybe I will post one here for those that seem unknowing about them.
I have no problem with the woman being given the opportunity to speak though.
Jeanne Hicks Powers says
Separation of church and state ( that’s what I wrote originally!)….. Are you now trying to rewrite our history? Perhaps CC should focus their time moving OR forward. If you want to preach, ….attend the church of your choice… as I and many others do. Leave government to government! Everyone has their 3 minutes… or whatever OR time is allotted…. Time to get back to business….. OR governmental business, that is
Mike Mahathy says
I’m not trying to rewrite history. Sounds like you are. I will wait for you to post about all the times prayer was not offered in Congress, at the White House, the SCOTUS, at the founding meetings, and on the battle field. The Declaration of Independence is basically a prayer. I know history well Jeanne. Being from NY I assume you are aware that public education in the US was founded on Biblical texts (New England Primer for one) until the mid-1800s.
As I said, separation of church and state (no state-mandated church or a requirement to worship), yes. Separation of church from state is not in the COTUS but the opposite. Congress shall makes law … prohibiting the free exercise thereof. If a person at City Council doesn’t want to participate in a prayer or a lecture against prayer, both have the right. Now I must run. I need to watch C-span to see the opening prayer this morning.
Tracy Stout-Powers says
Tracy Stout-Powers
🙂
Tracy Stout-Powers says
I would like to know why she was allowed to speak to begin with. She is not a resident of Oak Ridge, is she? Louisville, TN, I believe.
Tracy Stout-Powers
Citizen says
Please see remark of Citizen to your earlier post. Thanks!
Jeanne Hicks Powers says
I stand by what I originally posted. Your interpretation is that…. yours.
Mike Mahathy says
Your interpretation is wrong and not based on history. I refuse to debate or have dialogue with a person that refuses to be truthful because I know you are smart and know the real history of the United States.
Tracy Stout says
People read and comprehend the way they want to. At no point did you twist what she said. She said separation of church and state. Your comment reflects on how the Freedom From Religion group and the Rationalists have twisted it.
Some people will argue with a stump.
Tracy Stout
Jeanne Hicks Powers says
Please reread… and then comment. Thanks
Jeanne Hicks Powers says
It is “separation of church and state”. No twist
Jeanne Hicks Powers says
Once again, your interpretation. I have my opinion and ideology… as do you. Your “opinion” of my accuracy, is just that… your opinion! I’m really tired of the time wasted here over all of this when the bottom line is….. get OR MOVING FORWARD! That is the CC’s job! All of this angst, IMO, was a huge waste of time and kept OR from moving ahead. Keep religion in church. All this controversy over an invocation….. Separation OF church and state….. When will OR CC focus as a team on what they need to do to move forward? BTW…. I am a very honest and truthful person! Please don’t try to go there. You really should know better at this stage and point in your life. “Low blows” rarely make the originator of them look better.
Doge of Yettis says
The Treaty of Tripoli refutes everything you said about our country:
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
What part of ” the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion” do you not understand?…It’s crystal clear that this country is not a christian nation, nor was it ever intended to be or will it ever be.
As far as the Declaration of Independence goes, it is not a binding legal document and it served only one purpose and that was formal statement of intent…. It not as if the British or any other country could veto or challenge it…
You can try to revise history all you want, that doesn’t make it truth.
Mike Brandvold says
Nah cuzz, he is right. Here is the truth. Quote all the docs you want, but reality is what it is, and that cat is right.
You and your pseudo intellectual RawStory clowns dont live in reality.
Mike Mahathy says
John Huotari. Do you still have the requirement to post under one’s real name?
johnhuotari says
Hi, Mike.
Yes, we do still require real names. I tried to address that in the featured comment posted above. Please let me know if you don’t see it for some reason.
Thank you,
John
Mike Mahathy says
I will not debate misguided, anonymous fools.
Tracy Stout says
John Huotari, I have been warned in an email that my posts will be deleted if submitted under “Vladsmom’s” name. I replied in an email that I had tried everything to change the setting and wasn’t able to, therefore, I wrote my name in the body of my message. The same should go for Doge of Yettis.
Tracy Stout
johnhuotari says
Hi, Tracy.
Yes, we do still require real names. I tried to address that in the featured comment posted above. Please let me know if you don’t see it for some reason.
To the other commenters, Tracy tried to add her name to this post (I can see it on my comment moderation dashboard), but it didn’t show up here for some reason. I’ll try to work with her on that in a private discussion.
Thank you,
John
Mike Brandvold says
You got busted for selling weed!!! haha!
David Allred says
Agree with Mike… recently I’ve been asked to do so many public prayers for organizations and groups that I have decided to go with my own translation of the Lord’s Prayer and just stick with it for public events. Until now, I have tended to do my prayers from the hip because that is the way I pray all the time, conversationally. But I have started to realize that it may be too personal or informal in my invoking for some to bear…. best to stick with a prayer that is 2000 years old and tell folks if they don’t like it, they can take it up with the owner. 😉
Like you, I say let the woman invoke once a year – or once every other year. Just make sure she stays off her soapbox, because I always stay off mine with doing the invocation. If they want to debate, pick a better venue.
Jeanne Hicks Powers says
It’s all up for “interpretation” in the end….
Tracy Stout says
I have a problem with a non-resident being given the opportunity to sow discord where there was none.
Tracy Stout
Citizen says
Aleta gave the invocation in her capacity as Celebrant or Officiant of RET and its Oak Ridge congregation. Please quit ignoring facts already made clear in earlier posts. RET Citizens of Oak Ridge gave the invocation to CC through their appointed speaker and officiant.
I also would have agreed with you about no prior discord, until I witnessed the behavior at the meeting. Apparently, despite my naivete, discrimination against a significant segments of the citizenry are in fact entrenched in Oak Ridge government. Thus my surprise and dismay. I was truly suprised by the unkind and rude reception by certain of the Council. Until that moment, I had thought I lived in an open-minded and progressive and fair community and that my elected officials embodied this same attitude of the community. Again, hence, my sincere dismay.
Angi Agle says
It’s okay to be fair and represent different beliefs (or non-beliefs). Still, I don’t think God or anyone else was impressed with her departure. Of course, I didn’t notice — my eyes were closed and I was otherwise occupied.
Sam Hopwood says
Well Angie, according to the KNS Rick Chinn, who has done more for OR than just about anyone that I can think of, actually DID walk out and Mayor Gooch finally cut the speaker off after three minutes, Good for him. I, for one, am pleased to see some council members and a Mayor with a little backbone. Sorry that you and Charlie disagree but that is your right.
Charlie Jernigan says
Sam, Rick left to let Trina know that it was safe for her come back in without having the backbone to be exposed to a citizen’s opinion that she may or may not have agreed with. It was all just a petty, orchestrated spectacle.
I do agree that Rick should have been above his part in this.
Sam Hopwood says
Your paints are on fire, Charlie.
tigglon says
She was cut off after 2 minutes and 23 seconds, actually — well before her allotted time. Now let’s hear some more about persecution of Christians in the U.S….
Tracy Stout-Powers says
From Tracy Stout-Powers (also in KNS)
Aleta Ledenbecker blatantly lied in her interview with the KNS. She claims she was not informed until the last minute that she would be doing the invocation, however, in a Facebook comment, she said she received an email the morning of the meeting. Which is it, Aleta?
I’d like to know why someone from the Knoxville/Louisville area feels it is her responsibility to come all the way to Oak Ridge to spread her atheist opinions. Our town does just fine without anyone associated with the Freedom from Religion yahoos or your self-described “rationalists” atheist group.
I cannot imagine why you would be permitted to speak since you are not a resident of Oak Ridge, but I will find out.
I want to publicly thank Trina Baughn and Rick Chinn for standing up for what they believe, which is their right, like it or not, and walking out on her offensive remarks. Ledenbecker and her atheist comrades considered it rude, I consider it the act of Americans who know that without God, their lives, our country and the world, have no hope.
They weren’t elected, nor are they expected to be held hostage and have to endure the ramblings of some godless woman who isn’t even a resident of our town.
The hubris this woman and her group possess are off the charts.
Tracy Stout-Powers
Julie Rogish says
I am a citizen of Oak Ridge and a member of Rationalists of East Tennessee, which has a large number of its members living in the City of Oak Ridge — including three of its Board Members. Some were in the audience that night, and others would have been had RET had notice of its invocation spot confirmed earlier. Aleta is not only secretary on the board of RET, but she is an ordained Secular Celebrant and an Officiant of RET, though we generally eschew labels in any context. RET is not a specifically atheist organization; but, includes members of great diversity of current and former beliefs, backgrounds, nationalities, and ethnicities. ,
Citizen says
What RET members share, however, is belief in the use of critical thinking skills and logic, fairness, due process, and the equality of all citizens of diverse backgrounds and beliefs ( or lack of belief)—- apparently not a sentiment shared by Council members Baughn, Chinn, or even the Mayor. It was distressing to witness.
Tracy Stout says
Your point is? Or are you saying that is why she was allowed to come in from out of town and speak?
If I am supposed to be impressed by these labels that your organization eschews, I can assure you, I’m not.
Tracy Stout
tigglon says
You might want to look up “eschew”. Behold the education that religious superstition gets you…
Dave Smith says
I think she has used “eschews” in context. The sentence conveys a complex thought pattern that requires comprehension of the antecedent. It might make sense to you if you re-read both comments.
I also think you’ve landed here while trolling the net and haven’t read Commenting Guidelines #1 and #2.
Tracy Stout says
I appreciate your reply to the troll.
Tracy Stout
tigglon says
Ok, you’re right. It does make sense as a response to Citizen.
Tracy Stout says
I’m so glad Dave Smith replied to you. He was much more polite and tactful than I would have been to your condescending comment.
“Behold the education….” ahhh yes, the superior attitude of the atheist. So classy. It’s too bad you couldn’t simply skip past comments that you didn’t understand. Instead, you insisted on proving that the godless are incapable of withholding their disdain for believers.
No, our City Council members shouldn’t have to entertain a non-resident whose only reason for speaking is to initiate discord where there was none.
Tracy Stout
tigglon says
My apologies — I didn’t read Citizen’s comment. Yes, you used it correctly. I thought you were saying you weren’t impressed by the labels she does embrace.
Tracy Stout says
I already knew I used it correctly. My issue with you was your condescending implication that I was uneducated due to my belief in a “religious superstition.”
I don’t know what made you so close minded and cynical toward the One who created the entire universe, you included. Just because you don’t believe it, doesn’t make Him not real.
Tracy Stout
tigglon says
I don’t believe in certain supernatural things, but you’re right that doesn’t mean they aren’t real.
I don’t believe in the most flattering, conceited, self-aggrandizing thing a human can believe — that the purpose of the whole universe is my salvation and my immortality — but you’re right that doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
I only suggest that you might consider — just for a moment, if never again — what your motives are for your belief.
Tracy Stout-Powers says
At the risk of opening myself up to you….ahhhh, no, something has jaded you and turned you into a caustic cynic. I’d rather just pray for a softening of your heart, it’s hard to dislike someone you pray for.
Tracy Stout-Powers
Citizen says
Yes, that was precisely my point. Aleta was present in the same capacity as pastors or priests speaking invocations to CC on behalf of their congregations. RET’s congregation includes many Oak Ridge citizens. Aleta was presenting on behalf of all Oak Ridge congregants. I am unsure how to make the point more clear.
I find any dismissive attitude toward universal rights of all citizens distressing, yes. Non-observance of constitutional rights, personal animosity, and discrimination, on both an official and personal level, are worthy of distress, are they not to you?
Tracy Stout says
Separation of church and state is not in the Constitution. The personal insults and animosity that is being written about the two that left is much worse than their actions warrant.
But it sure is a great way to get free advertising for your group, huh?
Tracy Stout
Mike Mahathy says
You are so proud of your stance that you post anonymously which is a violation of the terms of usage for this site. Nonetheless as I said earlier, I respect your right to believe as you do and I respect you as a person. Others reserve the same right.
Citizen says
I wasn’t really trying to avoid recognition, I thought to highlight the point that I speak for “Everyman” or as an Oak Ridge Citizen–whatever their belief, creed, background or ethnicity. Including yours. I am, in fact, Julie Rogoish, a board member of RET and the name that appears on the Agenda for the meeting as giving the Invocation, a mistake, in fact, but the name that they had, because I had last spoken with the City Clerk’s office in order to obtain a place in the rotation of invocations. A process, by the way, which began in January of 2015. One year of effort and non-responsiveness.
Citizen says
You might also find me in Church. The premise of separation of church and state is not anti-religion, it is that religion and government are best not mixed, and have their own spheres. And if mixed, just which religion would we allow? There are many. And some have a personal Creed which doesn’t involve a supernatural deity at all. They, too, are citizens.
Tracy Stout says
Unitarian? 🙂
Tracy Stout
A Citizen (Julie Rogoish) says
I have many Unitarian friends, and have helped at their book fairs; but, no, that is not the church. Good thought, though ; )
C. Hagan says
Our town does just fine without anyone associated with the Freedom from Religion yahoos or your self-described “rationalists” atheist group.
For that statement to be true, I would have to move–as I am one of those rationalist yahoos, and I reside in the City of Oak Ridge. To my knowledge, I have not harmed the City or any of its residents by living here, especially when I consider the considerable taxes I have paid and the local businesses I have tried to support (rather than driving to Turkey Creek or West Town to help Knoxville’s economy). I lead a quiet life, obey the laws, work hard at a full-time job, do volunteer work with a charity, and try to be a good neighbor. If my beliefs make me unwelcome in Oak Ridge, then perhaps I should take my tax dollars and support of local businesses back to my former city of residence, where people are not so intimidated and angered by thoughts and beliefs.
. . .endure the ramblings of some godless woman who isn’t even a resident of our town.
Well, I have to endure the ramblings of believers every day, not just for 3 minutes at a Council meeting, and I’m not upset by it. I’m glad they have a religion or a belief system that brings meaning, comfort, fellowship, and joy to their lives. I’m genuinely happy for them, especially those I’m fortunate enough to have as friends, and I applaud many believers for the difficult choices they sometimes have to make to adhere to their beliefs. In addition, I admire the courage they sometimes draw from their faith when in difficult situations.
When various representatives of the various gods ply their trade as missionaries and come to my door, I do not recoil in horror or send them away. I try to treat them with kindness and respect because they sincerely believe they are doing a good deed and trying to help me. I thank them for caring about me. I do not want what they are selling, but that doesn’t mean the salesperson should be treated harshly.
I also applaud many nonbelievers for holding to their convictions despite the tremendous animus they sometimes experience. Perhaps you could extend the same courtesy and warm wishes to nonbelievers that I feel for believers. Ms. Baughn wouldn’t even listen to the invocation on the mere possibility something might assail her beliefs, as she put it. It seems to me that any belief so easily bruised or challenged is surely a very shallow one indeed. I agree that she was well within her rights to leave the room, but was it really necessary? Deeply held beliefs aren’t easily assailed and can even be strengthened by listening to opposing viewpoints.
A number of years ago, I heard a speech by then-Governor of New York Mario Cuomo, who remarked, “I best protect my right to be Catholic by protecting your right not to be Catholic.” In the same vein, I believe that believers best protect their right to be believers by protecting the rights of others not to be believers.
ForrestErickson says
When I read something like, ” They weren’t elected, nor are they expected to be held hostage and
have to endure the ramblings of some godless woman who isn’t even a resident of our town. The hubris this woman and her group possess are off the charts.”
I think of Robert Ingersoll’s warning, “Whenever an orthodox editor attacks an unbeliever, look out for kindness, charity and love.”
Tracy Stout says
LOL yes, it certainly isn’t expected from an intolerant unbeliever sowing discord where none was to begin with.
If the three city council members that are members of the “rationalists” group have a problem with the way the meetings have been held these past years, I would have hoped they would have discussed it in house. Surely they would NEVER ask a controversial group like yours to come and spread your message in a public forum, thereby making Oak Ridge look intolerant of other beliefs. Especially after getting after others for the same thing.
Tracy Stout
Dave Smith says
I appreciate that Mr. Huotari has included a link to the council meeting video in this article. I did not watch the live broadcast on Monday, so I was able to listen to it on the video.
I can’t say I have a formed opinion about whether it is good or proper to begin the council meetings with an invocation. I do think that whatever is said or invoked should be respectful of the council members, city employees and citizens of Oak Ridge. Measured by that criterion, I would say that Ms. Ledendecker’s invocation – if it can rightfully be called such by the usual definition of the word – was a failure. The mood of her essay was decidedly condescending, insinuating at times that our council and our officials needed to be lectured on the secular framework of city government. Furthermore, she seemed intent to prolong the start of council business without regard to the limit of the temperate nature of those in attendance. If Mayor Gooch had not deftly transitioned to the Pledge of Allegiance after 2-1/2 minutes, one can only wonder how long she would have continued.
ForrestErickson says
Dave Smith, for us in the nonbeliefe community to say that no pray to a god is appropriate is simply the mirror image of when the previous providers of invocations say “In Jesus Name We Pray” which happens often and happened in the November and December meetings if I recall correctly.
The Greece V Galloway decision says that once a government body allows invocations / prayers the government can not dictate content of said prayer.
The Satanic Temple has every right to lead invocations too.
Here is to hoping they setup up some time soon.
Dave Smith says
Forrest, you addressed me in your comments but I can’t discern whether you are responding to one of the statements I made in my posting. Sorry.
I don’t know of the Satanic Temple, but from the name alone I think it would be interesting to compare the invocation of one its adherents to that of Ms. Ledendecker. I question whether it could be either more self-absorbed or less ineffectual.
Tina West says
Please contact Chin and ask him why he walked out. Did he walk out to get Trina?
Dave Smith says
In the video of the council meeting it appears that Mr. Chinn (two n’s) left his seat at the moment Mayor Gooch directed the assembly to begin the Pledge of Allegiance. It seems reasonable to conclude that he did not walk out on Ms. Ledendecker’s soliloquy but left to let Ms. Baughn know that the Pledge was beginning.
I tip my hat to council for their wise decision to elect Mr. Gooch as mayor. He has again demonstrated that he is respectful of others and able to handle awkward situations with grace and tact.
Tracy Stout-Powers says
Maybe Mr. Chinn left because he doesn’t approve of the Pledge being said at council meetings and wanted to take a stance against that. After all, if we are concluding and assuming, let’s explore other possibilities.
Tracy Stout
Jeanne Hicks Powers says
That’s just plain silly!
Mike Mahathy says
Opening prayer of first continental congress but hey we were not founded as a Christian nation (so says irrational people who ignore facts).
O Lord our Heavenly Father, high and mighty King of kings, and Lord of lords, who dost from thy throne behold all the dwellers on earth and reignest with power supreme and uncontrolled over all the Kingdoms, Empires and Governments; look down in mercy, we beseech Thee, on these our American States, who have fled to Thee from the rod of the oppressor and thrown themselves on Thy gracious protection, desiring to be henceforth dependent only on Thee. To Thee have they appealed for the righteousness of their cause; to Thee do they now look up for that countenance and support, which Thou alone canst give. Take them, therefore, Heavenly Father, under Thy nurturing care; give them wisdom in Council and valor in the field; defeat the malicious designs of our cruel adversaries; convince them of the unrighteousness of their Cause and if they persist in their sanguinary purposes, of own unerring justice, sounding in their hearts, constrain them to drop the weapons of war from their unnerved hands in the day of battle!
Be Thou present, O God of wisdom, and direct the councils of this honorable assembly; enable them to settle things on the best and surest foundation. That the scene of blood may be speedily closed; that order, harmony and peace may be effectually restored, and truth and justice, religion and piety, prevail and flourish amongst the people. Preserve the health of their bodies and vigor of their minds; shower down on them and the millions they here represent, such temporal blessings as Thou seest expedient for them in this world and crown them with everlasting glory in the world to come. All this we ask in the name and through the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son and our Savior.
Amen.
Reverend Jacob Duché
Rector of Christ Church of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
September 7, 1774, 9 o’clock a.m.
Tracy Stout says
What a beautiful prayer. Can you imagine how great this country could have been were it not for the groups like Ret and Freedom From Religion?
If you want to see what the FFRF really thinks about Christians, go to their fb page and read some comments. Disrespectful, rude, haughty, outright hate towards Christians mocking our beliefs. I could go on but there is no reasoning with atheists and their cohorts.
Tracy Stout Powers
Mike Mahathy says
John Quincy Adams who was President after the oft misquoted Treaty of Tripoli speaks of the Bible and how it was the foundation of the United States.
John Quincy Adams (1767– 1848) was the sixth President of the United States, and son of the second President, John Adams. The great majority of his life was spent in public service. This began at the age of 14 when he received a Congressional diplomatic appointment as secretary to the ambassador of the court of Catherine the Great in Russia. During his life he served as foreign ambassador to England, France, Holland, Prussia, and Russia, Secretary of State, a member of the U.S. Senate, President, and then 18 years as a member of the House of Representatives. He died in the U.S. Capitol on February 23, 1848.
His last words were: “This is the last of earth; I am content.â€[1] He could be content, for he faithfully discharged his duties as a public servant, and his devout Christian faith prepared him to face the eternal hereafter.
Shortly after his death, a series of letters Adams had written from Russia to his son on the Bible and its teachings were printed in a little book and widely distributed throughout America. They were received with great enthusiasm and the book underwent many printings and editions. This article contains one of the nine letters Adams wrote to his son. This letter reflects well the Christian faith of John Quincy Adams. Some additional materials on the faith of this man are provided before his letter to his son.
Faith of John Quincy Adams
Following are some words and actions that reflect the devote Christian faith of John Quincy Adams.
1. For many years John Quincy Adams was a member of the American Bible Society, and he served as one of the Vice Presidents. In 1830 he wrote a letter to that body stating in part:
The distribution of Bibles, if the simplest, is not the least efficacious of the means of extending the blessings of the Gospel to the remotest corners of the earth; for the Comforter is in the sacred volume: and among the receivers of that million of copies distributed by the Society, who shall number the multitudes awakened thereby, with good will to man in their hearts, and with the song of the Lamb upon their lips?
The hope of a Christian is inseparable from his faith. Whoever believes in the divine inspiration of the holy Scriptures, must hope that the religion of Jesus shall prevail throughout the earth. Never since the foundation of the world have the prospects of mankind been more encouraging to that hope than they appear to be at the present time. And may the associated distribution of the Bible proceed and prosper, till the Lord shall have made “bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.â€[2]
2. Adams attended church throughout his life, including services in the Capitol and other public buildings in Washington, D.C.
Adams attended church services in many places while living in Washington, D.C., including various locations in the Capitol Building. In his diary entry for October 23, 1803 he wrote: “Attended public service at the Capitol where Mr. Rattoon, an Episcopalian clergyman from Baltimore, preached a sermon.â€[3]
His diary entry for Oct. 30, 1803 was:
[R]eligious service is usually performed on Sundays at the Treasury office and at the Capitol. I went both forenoon and afternoon to the Treasury.[4]
In 1827 while President, Adams attended a service in the House Chamber in the U.S. Capitol to listen to Harriet Livermore, an evangelical female minister. He “sat on the steps leading up to her feet because he could not find a free chair.â€[5]
In his diary of February 2, 1806, he recorded:
Several of the Ladies went to pay visits — I rode with them to the Capitol for the purpose of attending Church; but I found there was no preaching at the House of Representatives, and the Court-House below . . . was so crowded that I could not get within the room.[6]
Adams also recorded in his diary attending a four-hour Presbyterian service conducted in the War Office on January 29, 1804.[7]
The last Sunday of his life, February 20th, 1848, he attended public worship at the Capitol in the morning, and at St. John’s church in the afternoon.[8]
3. Adams was Vice-President of the American Bible Society and a member of the Massachusetts Bible Society[9]
4. In an Oration delivered July 4th 1837 he stated:
Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birth-day of the Saviour? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer’s mission upon earth? That it laid the corner stone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity, and gave to the world the first irrevocable pledge of the fulfillment of the prophecies, announced directly from Heaven at the birth of the Saviour and predicted by the greatest of the Hebrew prophets six hundred years before?[10]
5. Adams spoke of the Christian faith of the American people:
[T]he people of the North American union, and of its constituent States . . . were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of the Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledged as the rules of their conduct.[11]
6. Adams said that Christianity produced the public morality necessary for civil freedom because Christianity effects the heart.
Human legislators can undertake only to prescribe the actions of men: they acknowledge their inability to govern and direct the sentiments of the heart; the very law styles it a rule of civil conduct, not of internal principles. . . . It is one of the greatest marks of Divine favor . . . that the Legislator gave them rules not only of action but for the government of the heart.[12]
Three points of doctrine, the belief of which, forms the foundation of all morality. The first is the existence of a God; the second is the immortality of the human soul; and the third is a future state of rewards and punishments. Suppose it possible for a man to disbelieve either of these articles of faith and that man will have no conscience, he will have no other law than that of the tiger or the shark; the law of man may bind him in chains or may put him to death, but they never can make him wise, virtuous, or happy.[13]
7. His faith is expressed in his poetry.
Mr. Adams wrote a hymn for the celebration of the 4th of July, 1831, in Quincy, Massachusetts. Stanzas include the following:
Sing to the Lord a song of praise;
Assemble, ye who love his name;
Let congregated millions raise
Triumphant glory’s loud acclaim.
From earth’s remotest regions come;
Come, greet your Maker, and your King;
With harp, with timbrel, and with drum,
His praise let hill and valley sing.
. . . .
Go forth in arms; Jehovah reigns;
Their graves let foul oppressors find;
Bind all their sceptred kings in chains;
Their peers with iron fetters bind.
Then to the Lord shall praise ascend;
Then all mankind, with one accord,
And freedom’s voice, till time shall end,
In pealing anthems, praise the Lord.[14]
8. He said it is shameful to be ignorant of the Bible.
To a man of liberal education, the study of history is not only useful, and important, but altogether indispensable, and with regard to the history contained in the Bible . . . It is not so much praiseworthy to be acquainted with as it is shameful to be ignorant of it.[15]
9. His view on the laws of nature and nature’s God.
[T]he laws of nature and of nature’s God . . . of course presupposes the existence of a God, the moral ruler of the universe, and a rule of right and wrong, of just and unjust, binding upon man, preceding all institutions of human society and of government.[16]
10. He expressed trust in Christ for future life.
My hopes of a future life are all founded upon the Gospel of Christ and I cannot cavil or quibble away . . . the whole tenor of His conduct by which He sometimes positively asserted and at others countenances His disciples in asserting that He was God.[17]
11. He said the Ten Commandments are the foundation of civil government:
The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code . . . laws essential to the existence of men in society and most of which have been enacted by every nation which ever professed any code of laws.[18]
Vain indeed would be the search among the writings of profane antiquity . . . to find so broad, so complete and so solid a basis for morality as this decalogue [the Ten commandments] lays down.[19]
A Citizen (Julie Rogoish) says
Mr. Mahathy, you make the point for separation of church and state. Because, despite any personally held religious beliefs of John Adams, Christian or otherwise, it was John Adams, president, who signed the Treaty of Tripoli, a treaty UNANIMOUSLY PASSED by Congress in 1797 (a mere 9 years since the ratification of the Constitution and a Congress filled with the Constitution’s very authors and others instrumental in obtaining its ratification by the states), and a treaty that explicitly states (direct quote)“the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.â€
See? John Adams, profoundly religious per your research, still managed to separate his personal beliefs from his acts as a government representative of all citizens. A citizenry that is not required by the Constitution to believe in a Christian god, or any god. (of course, nor can you be prevented from believing same, but are, in fact, entitled to your belief. All creeds and beliefs, including lack thereof, are protected.) We may be a nation of mostly Christians (statistics unknown by me) but we are NOT a Christian nation. To say so excludes many of our citizens. And we are a nation of laws, not of majority rule.
johnhuotari says
Hello all.
I want to ask those of you who are new to Oak Ridge Today to please use your real name, including first and last, when commenting here. We have a few commenting guidelines (they’re posted above), and using your real name is one of them.
Any comments that don’t follow the guidelines may be removed. So, if you posted using a pseudonym and want your comment to stay, I would encourage you to re-post it using your real name.
Thank you for your understanding. We appreciate you reading Oak Ridge Today and participating in the discussion.
John
MIKE STEVENS says
John: I think that it’s time for you to delete this thread. Nothing constructive is coming from any of the posts. I would much rather learn about important business of the city council such as progress on the the preschool.
Tracy Stout-Powers says
How is this thread keeping you from learning about progress on the preschool? If you don’t like it, don’t click on it. Besides, you haven’t even been a part of this conversation!!
Tracy Stout-Powers
Jeanne Hicks Powers says
I agree…. most of the commentaries on any given event, including this one, are a “pat on the back” back and forth from a few people who need to just agree with each other. This thread has brought in a few more people but not for any true value.
johnhuotari says
Hi, Mike. We don’t delete threads, but we do sometimes close them if we think the conversation has run its course. In this case, I think it probably has, so I’m closing this thread.
Thank you,
John
Philip W Nipper says
Let’s hope for the next several council meetings a person of the Quaker faith can give the invocation where nothing is spoken and the people in attendance can think of whatever they want to think or think of nothing at all. It most likely would exceed the three minute rule though…
johnhuotari says
Hello all.
I think this conversation has run its course, so I’m closing this thread. Thank you for reading Oak Ridge Today and participating in the discussion.
A few people asked if we still require real names to post here. The answer to that is: Yes, we do. Normally, comments from first-time posters are automatically held in moderation, and I don’t approve those that use pseudonyms. As you can see, several slipped through on this thread. I’m not sure why. I’ll double-check our moderation settings to see if there is anything I can change.
I will try to go back and remove those comments posted under only a pseudonym with no other identifying information. Anyone who posted one of those comments is welcome to get in touch with me if they want to re-post their comment using a real name.
Thank you for your patience and understanding, and I hope you have a good night.
John