Trina Baughn
Charlie Hensley
Several Oak Ridge City Council members clashed on Monday as they debated a few last-minute proposals to reduce city spending in some areas and increase it in others.
Most of the debate centered on proposals submitted by Oak Ridge City Council member Trina Baughn. She asked the City Council to consider nine budget-cutting proposals and consider selling the Centennial Golf Course and the property used by the Oak Ridge Chamber of Commerce, among other things.
Baughn said she represents the citizens of Oak Ridge and is trying to find the highest and best use of city-owned property. She has previously said she would like to lower the property tax rate and has advocated for a more limited government.
“It’s all about exploring,†Baughn said.
But Oak Ridge Mayor Tom Beehan said Council members should have received Baughn’s proposals earlier. It wasn’t clear whether Baughn was making “apples to apples†comparisons in her budget analyses, and her proposals lacked crucial details, the mayor said.
“There’s a lot of detail here, but there’s a lot of detail missing,†Beehan said.
Council member Charlie Hensley questioned the accuracy of Baughn’s information. Hensley also said he objected to Baughn posting some of her proposals online, including on Facebook, when she could have her facts wrong.
“It takes four votes up there, and not one just one person blogging on their ‘blab,’†Hensley said.
He said all seven Council members represent residents, not just Baughn.
Six of Baughn’s budget-cutting proposals were rejected as amendments to the city budget presented by Oak Ridge City Manager Mark Watson on Monday. After the vote on the sixth proposed amendment, Baughn asked for a special meeting to consider them separately before the second and final budget reading on May 28.
At that meeting, Baughn said, she could provide as much detail as other Council members wanted.
“We owe it to the people to have that discussion,†Baughn said.
Among other things, her proposals could reduce municipal travel, eliminate “excess funding†for acquiring and demolishing blighted properties, and slash spending for economic development groups, the Public Library, and Recreation and Parks Department. Some of the savings could be returned to taxpayers.
Also Monday, Council postponed discussion of amendments proposed by Council member Chuck Hope. He had hoped to increase funding by a total of $500,000 in three critical areas: economic development, capital maintenance, and for a study of relocating Fire Station No. 2 in east Oak Ridge to the southeast section of the city. Hope’s proposed amendments could also be considered at the special meeting later this month.
Hope said the funding for his proposals could come from a hiring freeze, attrition, and operational efficiencies.
Oak Ridge City Council member David Mosby said he voted against Baughn’s proposals, but he applauded her for doing the research. Mosby asked Watson if Baughn, the newest Council member, might have identified some savings opportunities.
“I think it’s always good to challenge the status quo,†Mosby said.
Watson said the city staff has spent a lot of time developing the budget, and he cautioned Council members to clarify their goals if they start changing the budget, whether to save money, cut the tax rate, or make operations more efficient. He warned them that reductions in travel expenses could affect police officers, who are required to have a certain number of hours of training, and electrical workers who also need training.
***
The budget was approved in a 5-2 vote during a two-hour debate Monday. Voting for it were Beehan, Hensley, Mosby, and Council members Anne Garcia Garland and Jane Miller. Voting against it were Baughn and Hope.
Hope had suggested he was ready to vote on the amendments on Monday, rather than “passing the buck†to another meeting. Baughn said she couldn’t support the current unamended budget.
The budget, which includes roughly $20.2 million in general fund spending, proposes using $125,000 for the Oak Ridge Chamber of Commerce for expenses related to economic development. The Chamber contract has been valued at about $260,000 per year. The $125,000 would not be used for personnel costs at the Chamber.
There would also be a $25,000 reserve for unforeseen economic development expenses, $84,000 for economic development consultants Steve Jones and Ray Evans, and $55,000 in membership fees for the Roane Alliance, Anderson County Economic Development Association, and other organizations, money that could “pass through†the Chamber.
The proposed budget also cuts funding for the Oak Ridge Convention and Visitors Bureau from about $410,000 to $300,000.
***
It’s not the first time that Baughn and the mayor have clashed. She was first elected to Council in November, and in December, she asked Beehan, who is also a Council member, to drop his bid for a third term as mayor and consider resigning.
She also requested trip and cost information for all of Beehan’s city-related travel in the past five years.
Beehan did not resign, and he was re-elected mayor in a 4-3 vote in December.
It’s also not the first time that Baughn has challenged the status quo, to use Mosby’s phrase.
In March, she walked out of a City Council work session on economic development after she said moderator Darrell Akins interrupted her and Mosby and wanted Council members to agree, for the sake of discussion, that the city of Oak Ridge should be involved in economic development. Baughn said Akins was directing people to agree with him.
“The conversation wasn’t really going to go anywhere,†Baughn said later. “I didn’t see that as an environment that fostered anything productive.â€
She said Akins has since apologized, and she appreciated it.
“It was water under the bridge,†she said.
Mark Harvey says
Ant These Are The Days Of Our Lives………….
Denny Phillips says
Remember Trina, you and Mr. Watson are moving the COR in a direction it has rarely headed, towards fiscal responsibility.
Reductions in CoC and ORCVB are a great start and would have been unthinkable only a few years ago.
TJ Garland says
The CVB is selling buggy whips. Their job can be done by a good webmaster, totally online. Anyone coming to OR can go online now and get tons of info and pictures with links to local businesses. Google Earth, even. There is no way they need a budget over $100K a year. It’s a new world.
A good chunk of their budget goes to the Secret City Festival, which sound stage work has been done by Katy’s husband.
The SCF needs to stand alone financially.
The CVB has no way of measuring the effectiveness of their efforts. They use assumptions from other cities, who also assume fantastic results.
These are tough times and the taxpayers cannot be milked for non necessities.
I Farrar says
So a webmaster can research and contact travel groups, drive to regional welcome centers, work with various city and county agencies, contact potential groups and companies looking for facilities and hotels for their future functions, just to name a few off the top of my head and let’s not forget thinking outside of the box trying to sell an out of date town in east Tennessee.
TJ Garland says
Absolutely no proof that any of this gives a return on the investment.
Pretend you live in Ohio and wish to visit OR.
Search the web. There is no info that the CVB provides that cannot be found on the web.
The world is changing at an algebraic rate-and I hate it.
Ask your 14- 30 yr old if they have visited a CVB or a travel center. Ask them how many times they have been to a library last year.
The answer may surprise you.
No one but us old white men even read these blogs.
How many Gen xers, millennialist, etc. attend any of the various meetings in OR?
We are wasting valuable resources trying to preserve institutions that will not exist in ten years.
Trina is the future-your kids and grand kids are your future.
Btw, the mall property was and is still privately ownedand was and is still paying property taxes.
I Farrar says
I understand and see your point TJ. Why don’t we combine the CVB and the Chamber and call it Oak Ridge Chamber for Economic Development. That way the main focus is to bring in new revenue for the city. Period.
Andrew Howe says
They don’t need to actually do ANY of those things. They need to have someone sit at a desk and welcome people who have missed the tech curve and can’t use a computer to figure out where hotels are in town.
We don’t need to pay people to advertise our town. We are American history. People know about us. The town’s in all the travel guides.
Groups and companies don’t need anyone on the city budget calling them for facilities and hotels. It’s already right there on the ORCVB website. And the person sitting at the desk could be making those calls when actually needed anyway.
Basically, it’s a one-man pony show. One person could do all this, and the people who are into doing this kind of thing are often retired and do it for fun. We’re talking about giving one person a $30K salary and *maybe* paying for the space itself, although if the city OWNS the space, that’s a freebie, too.
$410K down to $300K? You didn’t go far enough. Shove it down to $100K and you’ve STILL got wiggle room in the budget to achieve the goals of the ORCVB.
To respond to TJ’s comment “no proof that any of this gives a return on the investment”: I’m quite sure it doesn’t give anything close to a return on investment. At $410K per year, it’s sure to be an enormous loss.
BSShipley says
YOu can’t be serious that the CVB is not and important factor to visitors to the area. That would be like saying the visitor center in Charleston NC is not necessary. They offer so much more information then you can get on a WEBSITE. Same with Savannah. The websites are for those who pay to advertise on it. It dosn’t include the local mom and pop business that are great unexpected experiences. Plus the local CVB’s are a face to face introduction to city. A lot of people still like a meet and greet. Recently a trip to sevierville included a stop at their CVB. Yes I already knew about the place but learned a lot more about area including bike trails, golf and places off the beaten path… SO YES The CVB is very important to any city and I’m pretty sure like most ours is funded mailing by the hotel motel tax. So the more people they can bring to the city the better their budget should be….
TJGarland says
Charleston is a huge tourist town. OR is not.
I lived in Charleston.
Try this– go online and find Charleston. Think of something you would physically visit or call their visitor’s bureau to find out.
You will most likely find the answer online.
Your kids certainly will.
Every motel has brochures on restaurants, entertainment, museums, etc. these are done by a private, for profit adv. company.
Their tourist bureau is also superficialous.
As usual, I speak only for myself
Ck Kelsey says
Comparing Oak Ridge to Charleston ,really ? Not even close ,what a bunch of BS Mr. Shipley
BSShipley says
“Ms.” For your information. Now who needs get tehir facts straight.
Ck Kelsey says
Their is spelled this way 🙂 . Factually !
I Farrar says
Mr. Howe there are people in our neighboring towns and communities who have no clue about our “history”. I can tell you from personal knowledge that it is not a one-man pony show. Sounds like you know a lot of history, maybe you should put your money where your mouth is and volunteer some .time. Social media can’t bid on events and contract with groups who do want to come here. Research is a process you may want to try it sometime.
Andrew Howe says
You ever have a friend that’s in need, so you do something for him for free that you’d normally charge people for?
I bet if the City said “we have to cut the Secret City Fest” from our budget you’d get a LOT of people volunteering to pick up the slack and STILL put it on. Bouncers from the bars around us could act as security. Lawn services will get the place prepped before and clean-up after. I (who am a sound engineer) or my colleagues would provide the sound system and mixing for bands (that would likely play for free to such a large crowd).
We may not be able to afford Rick Springfield, but maybe we could. One can actually book big-name national acts for under $5K. One’s that might draw an even bigger crowd than the classic rockers we usually get.
I put on an all day music festival last year in my own backyard. Because it was a word-of-mouth/email/Facebook advertised event, I probably only had a couple hundred people show up. BUT, the entire thing broke even. We made no money, we lost no money (well, the gals giving away burgers lost a bit on food, ’cause they were real sweet to the broke folk who came, but it was minimal).
And we had a BLAST – the people working, the people performing and the people watching.
If me and my gal and couple of pals can put on an all day music festival and break even, don’t tell me the city can’t do the same with all it’s resources, contacts, and know-how.
BSShipley says
how can you compare a back yard event to the SSF. and I bet you wouldn’t have enough people volunteer. I dont remember hearing the people of clinton complain because th city spends money on their Antique fair events and those are twice a year. Infact what I hear is the Oak Ridge doesnt’ do enough public events…. The city HAS To spend money for certain things – GET OVER IT…
Denny Phillips says
Yes Andrew, how dare you volunteer to help your community!
Ck Kelsey says
Clinton is spelled with a Capital C btw , it has 2 festivals ,spring and fall. However one is through the Chamber of Commerce,the other is sponsored by the Antique Guild. Please do some research before you spread misinformation. Thankyou .
Mike Brown says
Mr. Garland,
Please check your facts and insinuations before posting in the future. Yes, my company has been retained by the Arts Council of Oak Ridge to handle the stages for SCF. This is awarded through a competitive bid process by the Arts Council who produces the concerts. None of the CVB money goes toward our services nor does they have any involvement in the contracting process. I am a small business owner who is trying to do something for the community where we live, work and play. We leverage our buying power and network with national artists to bring quality entertainment which appeals to a broad audience to the festival. We perform the services below our cost to assist the SCF. If you have any questions about me or my company in the future please feel free to contact me prior to posting information. Feel free to call my office and get an appointment anytime. On a side note – FYI the CVB gives 10k to the SCF each year which I would not classify as a “good chunk.” of a 400k+ budget. That 10k is for advertising which includes other events and attractions as well so it is not SCF exclusive. I make it a point to not speak for her, but I’m sure my wife would be more than happy to meet with you and discuss your concerns and provide you with accurate information.
TJ Garland says
Thanks for the info. Mea culpa.
The SCF should be self financing.
Would you be interested in being the private promoter?
I firmly believe, and have been involved as a promoter, and owner of the large theater in an annual festival that used very popular local talent for entertainment. We set up three stages and brought in over 20,000 every year. The festival made a ton of money. The idea of an outside stage with a fence is dumb. Making the vendors shut down early is dumber.
Google Rogersville Heritage days.
Paying the WW2 actors is a big waste of $10K.
We are involved in 74 wars in the world now.
Skirnir Hamilton says
I am a bit curious as to how much funding the Public Library even receives from the city, as it seems to be mostly funded outside the city budget by private donations and such. May have to see if I can find that later, as it seems like a small library to me, but I came from a larger library city.
Andrew Howe says
Back in 2003 I was told that our library is the only “private” public library in the country. I don’t know what that means, but it implies there’s something different about it’s funding.
I pay $25 or so a year to belong to the Knox County lib system. I’d be happy to pay for the OR library usage, too.
Sadly, the library is not a neccessity. If the city is broke, cut it from the budget. I LOVE libraries, but… when you’re children are starving, you don’t spend money on re-landscaping your lawn.
Martin K. Weeks says
Nobody’s children are starving. However, many people’s children use the library. It is currently UNDERSTAFFED. If its budget is cut further, watch the summer reading program disappear, watch new book acquisition disappear. If you want to make the outside world think you’re behind the times and convince businesses not to relocate here, then cutting basic services like a well-functioning library would be the way to do it.
bsshipley says
The city is not broke its just that a FEW people dont like the way the money is spent. I bet there are more people happy with the city then not. But unfortunitly its the few that are making more noise. People show up an support
Sam Hopwood says
The city is up to it’s eyeballs in debt, the school system has spent it’s self into big trouble, why else is the city manager presenting a flat budget with still room for cuts? Trina speaks for a broad range of OR residents tired of the same old spend and tax bologna that has occurred over the years. The times they are a-changing…. get on board or get left behind. Incidentally, she polled several hundred more votes than another well known councilman in the last city election. He is still smarting over that.
Denny Phillips says
Right on the money, sir. Sell the golf course, roll the payment into the sewer upgrades and earmark the property tax revenue from it for sewer upgrades. When the sewer upgrade is complete, slash property taxes.
norton manning says
Not sure who are referring too, because there was clear winner in the overall election will Trina coming in second….
Denny Phillips says
Here is a great piece of reference material to show just how wonderful things are…
http://www.oakridgetn.gov/images/uploads/Documents/Departments/Finance%20Department/Reports/FY2012SummaryofDebt.pdf
Denny Phillips says
I didn’t notice a “happiness chart” in there, you might need to do more digging to find that…
johnhuotari says
The library is a city department. It appears to me, based on what I read on Page 55 of the proposed FY 2014 budget, that the library has been receiving about $1.4 million in city funding per year. The proposed budget is available here: http://www.oakridgetn.gov/images/uploads/Documents/Departments/Finance%20Department/Budget/2014/2014CORProposedBudget-WebVersion.pdf
David A. Vudragovich says
An important consideration on selling off city land or other assets, if you sell it and it does not bring in tax revenue (look at the mall as an example) the city will still be in financial difficulty without anything else to sell to keep the wolves at bay down the road.
It is not good to make a scared “I have to do something now” move that does not fix the problem (what I am assuming here is debt plus operations cost) and still leaves you in a cash crunch in the future.
Not saying not to sell, but make sure there are no outstanding liens or claims to what you are selling.
Also, if you are going to be working with your fellow council members for the next few years, pissing them off repeatedly is not a prudent move. Have the decency to give them a heads up.
Personally, I will except an apology once, if you do it to me twice, do not expect the opportunity to blind side me a third time.
TJGarland says
It will be on the property tax rolls and will not need to be maintained. Quite a change. Read the Grace Report from early 80’s.
David A. Vudragovich says
Where do I find it? I tried searching the city website and nothing.
mary connolly says
David,
Search the internet for the Grace Commission.
Also, W.R. Grace
The report was an indictmentof Govt. fraud and waste.
David A. Vudragovich says
Thank you, probably in the morning.
David A. Vudragovich says
Found it, 397 page pdf. This is when I was still a kid and I think I remember hearing the gov’t paid $10k for a hammer or toilet seat right? Off to read!
David A. Vudragovich says
TJ, second question, the Chamber has a lease…so if the property is sold, the Chamber pays the same amount. (lease is a contract that goes w the land) Who in their right mind would buy the property if they will keep the same income but then have to pay more in taxes on it? OR why would the city sell it and accept less in taxes than they currently bring in on the lease?
I am the first to admit I love seeing how other people do math, but often they forget to carry a 1 or something else (i.e. subsidies, grants, etc which are not in my specialty)
TJ Garland says
All leases have an end.
I am not pushing for the sale of the CofC property. It could be the city’s contribution to the Chamber.
It is producing some income for the city and is well maintained by the Chamber. I forgot who paid for the new addition.
Nevertheless, the Chamber would find the money to buy it if it we’re offered for sale.
The WRGrace Report was commissioned by Reagan to find ways to streamline government.
Hard work, good data in the report, but totally ignored by Congress. Couldn’t buy votes with it.
Per usual, these comments are mine only.
Andrew Howe says
a bit of ‘pissing off’ should be allowed. Just don’t let it get so bad y’all can’t work together.
She may not have all the experience and economic knowledge right now, to truly back her ideas, but it will come. For now though, I’m very much behind what I perceive as her ‘mission statement’: no more waste and no more screwing the citizens to support said waste.
BS Shipley says
Thats the only way Trina can operate. She doesn’t know how to get along with others. SHe is always confronational. She puts herself on a island all by herself and wont let anyone else on. ALso her short notice of her ademdums was exactly how she plays. Dont give people a chance to prepare a counter point, yet she wants to know what everyone else is going to say so she can create a issue.
Ck Kelsey says
That directly from BS.Appropriate initials !
TJ Garland says
You apparently didn’t attend the Council meeting last night. Trina was awesome. She was as prepared as Ellen used to be, and could not be intimidated by the pontificating Beehan, who still believes he is more than regular council member.
Jack C. says
I think that Trina should have a fair hearing. How else will Council and residents know if her ideas are good or not ?
Denny Phillips says
I would be remiss if I did not mention another aspect of the golf course that doesn’t sit well with me.
I could yammer on about the fact that the then sitting CC ignored petitions from citizens for a referendum on Parcel A, the flawed usage estimates used to justify the creation of the golf course, the fortune the COR has spent on it’s development and debt service, the fact that the property could have been used for industrial development to create jobs and the fact that it has operated at a loss for many, many years. But what is, in my opinion, most troubling aspect of Centennial is that at the time of its inception Oak Ridge already had two functioning golf courses.
This aspect really bothers me. Its borders on nefarious, in my view, that the COR would take tax dollars from the Oak Ridge Country Club and South Hills Golf Course and use them to fund their competition. Indeed, the opening of Centennial for all intents and purposes put SHGC out of business. And if memory serves me correctly (someone feel free to correct me if I am mistaken) ORCC struggled mightily, even opening its links to non-members for a period of time. These two private entities were forced to pay for their own execution.
BS Shipley says
Well since south hills doesn’t exist any more and the the ORCC is private – Membership only. Centential is the ONLY public course in Oak Ridge. Just cause you dont wnat it doesn’t mean others don’t. And please tell me what industry in the last 10 years was ever interested in that land….
Denny Phillips says
Lol. I play golf frequently and use the driving range at Centennial periodically. Alas, it is overpriced and less
TJ Garland says
The same goes for the IDB or city helping restaurants site here. We have over seventy eaterys of some sort here now.
Most are barely staying open, and wouldn’t if not for ORNL and Y12 90+ minute lunches.
Per usual, speaking only for myself.
Terry Pfeiffer says
I don’t know about you, but at ORNL I only get a 30 minute lunch.
TJ Garland says
I am retired and just read neck tags of restaurant patrons.
Mark Caldwell says
Let’s have those details Trina.
Myra Mansfield says
Push ’em back. Push em’ back. Waaaaay back.
Go Trina!
Anne Garcia Garland says
I don’t necessarily want the city to “own” a golf course but neither do I object. I do object to how Centennial came about but that is now neither here nor there. We have it. We currently have an operating contract with professionals and the course pays for its operation and maintenance. Land values being compromised in the current recession and the market for golf courses not being strong, it would be fiscally no smart to sell it now.
I believe Mr. Hope is mistaken in supporting a “way we’ve always done it” position with respect to the Chamber. I have long said that it seems a conflict of interest for Chambers to be involved in city contracts to do economic development. We hired this well-qualified city manager to help us with the city. He and I have our differences but I believe we need to give him a chance to do some things differently from the way they have been done. That does not mean I have less respect and admiration for Mr. Hope.
Also, Ms. Baughn gives us the opportunity to look at things through new lenses. I may disagree with her on some particulars but I value the fact that she has pushed us to DISCUSS subjects and reason together. Now if we can only rise to Reason.
There is no one on council today who is there exclusively for their own personal agenda. But each of us has particular interests and biases. It is my fervent hope that we can talk together respectfully and productively. And work from facts, not purely emotion.
Denny Phillips says
What harm is there in putting it on the market? If you don’t find an interested buyer then the cost of listing it is negligible.
Philip W. Nipper says
Discussion among our elected officials is a great thing and should probably happen more often via additional work sessions / retreats especially with an important topic such as the city’s budget. However, misinformation, skewed numbers and emotional personal agendas do not make good for government at any level.
johnhuotari says
On Monday, council did briefly discuss bringing back the Budget and Finance Committee, which included three council members and used to meet, starting in the fall, to discuss the budget and hear from city department heads as well as the Oak Ridge Schools. Working with the city staff, the committee would help develop budget priorities and make a recommendation to council. As I recall from Monday night’s meeting, Anne Garcia Garland and Charlie Hensley in particular advocated for this idea. There was some brief discussion whether the committee, if it were revived, should include all seven council members, as opposed to just a subset of council.
Ellen Smith says
I think it would be healthy for City Council to re-establish that committee, or something like it.
When I was on Council, the majority of Council members and several citizens (not just the 3 committee members) attended most meetings of the Budget & Finance Committee. It was an opportunity to learn about the financial situations of the city government and the schools, learn about the operations of the various city departments, and engage department heads and school officials in discussion regarding both their unfunded needs and possible opportunities for savings.
Although most Council members participated, the fact that this was just a 3-person committee made it easier to schedule meetings, as it wasn’t necessary to try to find times when all 7 Council members expected to be available. Also, committee discussions tend to be informal, creating a good opportunity for Council members to interact and get a better understanding of one another’s perspectives — something that can’t happen outside of announced public meetings.
I think there were too many meetings in the last year of the committee — the year that Charlie Hensley was chair and the only year when Mayor Tom Beehan participated, but it could be reconstituted with a shorter meeting calendar.