There is a persistent plaint that workers at Y-12 National Security Complex and Oak Ridge National Laboratory don’t live in Oak Ridge because the property tax rate is so high. Farragut is pointed to as having no city tax at all and therefore highly attractive. Farragut, no less than Oak Ridge, is indeed an attractive area in which to live. It is not because of the property tax rate.
Let’s look at a few of the numbers related to the Oak Ridge city tax rate of $2.39. That rate is applied per $100 of value on 25 percent of the assessed value of residential property. In other words, if one’s home has been appraised at $150,000, the epitome of an “affordable†home, the city property tax is $2.39 per hundred dollars on $37,500, or $896.25. That means that this homeowner is paying just at $75 per month for city services.
Among the services covered by this $75 are police, fire fighters, parks and recreational services, library, street lights, sidewalks, code oversight, street maintenance, and the city’s contribution to the schools. That is $75 per household, not for each person.
If one chooses to live in Farragut rather than Oak Ridge, one pays no city property tax. However, let’s take an average commute of 15 extra miles and a mileage rate of 20 miles per gallon. Disregard the extra wear on the vehicle and the extra 40 minutes to an hour in commute time each day. If the person works a 4 day week, that’s 120 miles, or 6 gallons of gas each week. At $3.50 per gallon, it costs about $84 a month to commute; $105 if one works 5 days each week. We are already over the cost of city property tax in Oak Ridge.
In addition, the insurance rate on that house at one area company is $887 per year in Oak Ridge, which has a “3” rating for homeowner insurance, the best rating available. Farragut has a “4” rating which raises that insurance bill to $999. In addition, a homeowner in Farragut must subscribe to the fire services at $30 per month, an additional $360 per year.
Given these factors, it costs the $150,000 homeowner in the area of $577 more each year to live in Farragut.
So, folks, it’s not the property tax rate in Oak Ridge that keeps residents from locating here. There are other potential reasons Oak Ridge workers may choose to live in Farragut or Kingston or Lenoir City or Powell—or somewhere else over Oak Ridge. Maybe their coworkers or bosses live there. Maybe they found a neighborhood they particularly like. Maybe they want to be closer to the shopping and restaurants of Knoxville. Maybe the rumor that new hires are pointed to Knoxville realtors is true.
If we want more Y-12 and ORNL employees to live in Oak Ridge, we need to ask different questions about why they aren’t choosing here. If we can get real answers, we can figure out if there are things we can do to encourage more to choose our town. In addition, we need to be asking how we attract the attention of people who would love this city as much as we do and want to move here.
Anne Garcia Garland is an Oak Ridge City Council member.
Angi Agle says
Of the reasons I’ve heard, shopping is a big one (but we’re working on it). The ability to buy lakefront property is another. That said, I suspect there’s some truth to the persistent rumor that the HR departments at both plants are steering folks toward Knoxville realtors. Great column, Anne — you’re right on the mark.
John Huotari says
Over the years, I’ve heard several city officials point out something similar to what you are saying, Angi. Oak Ridge has miles of waterfront property but few, if any, waterfront homes. I’m not sure if any of the Rarity Ridge homes are on the waterfront.
I assume that most of the waterfront land is federally owned or otherwise subject to restrictions.
Are you aware of any areas that could offer lakefront property to homeowners?
Charlie Jernigan says
Rarity Ridge did have some on the water, while the vast majority were inland a bit or a bit more.
Ken Mayes says
Let me speak to this from personal experience. In 2009, we was house shopping and wanted to live in Oak Ridge. We were looking in the $150K 3-4 bedroom price range. Over the couple of months that we looked, there were but a handful of houses in our price range that we looked at and of the two we really liked, they were snatched off the market before we got to the point of making an offer. In Knoxville however; there were many houses in our price range and thus our selection was greater. So I think part of the equation is quantity available. Had there been more houses in Oak Ridge that fit our needs, in our price range during the time period we were looking, we would be living in Oak Ridge now but because all of those things didn’t fall into place, we live in Knoxville….not Farragut, though.
Anne Garcia Garland says
Ken, Thank you so much. That;s the kind of anecdotal information which we can certainly use. Angi, thanks for the kind words. Let’s all put our heads together and figure out how to appeal to more folks who really would love the houses we’ve got.
Sam Hopwood says
Ask the OR school employees- teachers etc.- and OR city employees why they choose not to live in OR. Ken Mayes is right on target, attractive housing is the primary reason. Seventy year old houses do not appeal to many people and OR has hundreds of them. Folks vote with their feet and OR has been losing for decades.I don’t think that will change and OR needs to face reality and accept what we are. Just my view…..
BTW does the OR industrial recruiter still live in Kville?? That speaks volumes.
Ken Mayes says
I will say that the two houses we liked were both Manhattan Project houses that had been well maintained and with updated interiors. Some of the others we looked at were “newer”, 60s/70s, homes that were not in as good of shape.
Peter Scheffler says
The Chair of the Industrial Development Board lives in Oak Ridge.
Trina Baughn says
Oak Ridge **was** affordable to the demographic we attracted. We have not remained affordable for many of our existing residents or potential residents. Basing this argument on a $150K home is flawed when one considers what the average home prices in Farragut is over $300K. The average Farragut home owner would end up paying thousands more in Oak Ridge.
Regardless,when people tell you directly over and over and over again that the reason they don’t move here or the reason they left is because of the property tax rate, you can’t argue otherwise. It is what it is.
Charlie Jernigan says
Trina, you are right, I believe, that the $150,000 home is not the target. However since the costs of many fees and home insurance are proportional to value (and even automobile travel costs since we are talking about wealthier people in more valuable real estate), it doesn’t matter which price was picked for the illustration if you actually use real and complete numbers.
It is cheaper to live near where you work in Oak Ridge than in farra-way Farragut.
Trina Baughn says
Not according to the property-tax paying home owners I’ve talked to who live in Farragut and Lenoir City and other surrounding, GROWING, areas. To quote one person, “the reason we chose not to live in Oak Ridge is because there is no housing in the price range we were looking for and yes, the taxes are a big factor….we don’t commute and as I have said before there are seven couples that I personally know from my high school graduating class that moved back to the area for retirement and chose not to live there for the same reasons…”
Charlie Jernigan says
I know the feeling. I’ve heard the same thing occasionally but when you force them to give you all the numbers, it isn’t as simple as that. It’s like eye witness testimony; it is tainted by what they want to believe. After all they have made a decision and they want it to be right.
Almost always, in my experience, the choice to live out of town and commute to work is because of access to shopping and available housing in the mid-price range.
Peter Scheffler says
Trina makes a good point about the differences in home value. But I expect that if we had the same percentage of $300,000 homes in Oak Ridge as Farragut does, that we could actually LOWER our tax rate by a large percentage. The services necessary don’t vary much by the home value.
Denny Phillips says
What I can’t wrap my mind around is how we can say “Taxes aren’t the issue” and then walk into CC meetings and say “We must give tax breaks to attract businesses”.
As a non-city resident that also owns property in the city, I can honestly say I have no desire to have my residence annexed by the city. The amount of money exacted would not be worth services offered. The desire to remain free of Oak Ridge taxation is so pervasive in Marlow that many of my neighbors have begun discussing incorporating our community to protect ourselves from the possibility of annexation.
Andrew Howe says
Y’all ain’t paying no taxes in Marlow! I’m there!
Denny Phillips says
Only county taxes.
Denny Phillips says
I think it’s important to note that “It’s not the property tax rate” is both correct and incorrect at the same time.
To say that nobody chooses to live elsewhere because of tax rates is, of course, false. Likewise, to say that is the only reason people live elsewhere is lower tax rates is equally false.
There is little doubt that housing plays a part in all of it. Oak Ridge’s biggest shortcoming, in my opinion, when it comes to housing is that it lacks anywhere to build and the places that are available to build come complete with postage stamp size lots. Remember, not every would-be DOE employee has set up shop in Farragut. I know many people personally that have chosen cheap land and space in Morgan County, Roane County, Marlow, Dutch Valley, Kingston, Solway, Hardin Valley and other areas because they get better bang for their buck both in terms on cost per acre AND tax rates.
Additionally, as Ms. Agle correctly points out, retail has been a factor, though I tend to believe that retail follows population not the other way around.
Oak Ridge has, again in my opinion, done itself one last major disservice that contributes to the problem: it made it easy to get outta town. In the 30 + years I have spent in the area, the single largest road project I have seen undertaken in Oak Ridge has been creating the four lane divided highway to get people onto the Pellissippi Superspeedway as fast and conveniently as possible. Meanwhile for we local plebeians, we must endure the 1000 points of stop-lights, rocketing from 35 to 0 back to 35 back to 0 at every juncture of side-street or grocery store parking lot and the turnpike. Just when we get the gumption to press the pedal down a little….FLASH….$50 fine.
Truthfully, at some point you have to offer people some advantage. Oak Ridge isn’t cheaper. It isn’t newer. It isn’t sexier. It isn’t even more pragmatic. Even the once elite school system has slipped a touch. It took a long time to get to where it is and it will take a while to get back. Frankly, being one of the highest combined property and sales taxed cities in the state isn’t really something you put in a tour guide though.
Charlie Jernigan says
Denny, there is a lot right in your points here.
Here are a couple of counter-points:
While making it easy to get out of town is a root cause of the trend that put Oak Ridge where it is, it is also what is making it possible to deal with our housing issues by making those problems so clear. If we kept the workers “inside the fence”, we would all still be living on an army base. Another important co-factor was freeing contractor wages from lower government pay scales. This allowed many workers to exceed our housing values affordably. We have caught up some but not enough and certainly not everywhere. Look at what Kroger was able to do to a portion of its adjacent neighborhood.
If retail follows population, then why did it leave Oak Ridge during a period of stable population? And if it left for reasons unrelated to population, certainly it can come back as long as we compete according to the standards set by our geographical environment. Making concessions is a way of life for cities competing for commercial and industrial business. You can’t blame Oak Ridge for competing since the only way to realistically reduce property taxes is to build up sales taxes.
David A. Vudragovich says
1) as someone who attended the monthly O.R. HR meeting, I can tell you Realtors from Knox did not come and mingle, O.R. Realtors did. (not saying the rumors are not true, just they are not at the meetings, you do get Knox P&C agents though)
2) having moved to East TN in the summer of 2010, my wife and I did not like the houses so close together (postage stamp comment), so we went just east of 75 and got almost twice the space for the same dollar and three times the land. I pay for my own trash pick up ($65 per quarter) and my home owners covers me in case of a fire. I do not miss any city services)
3) when we first pulled into town it was a rain March day and O.R. was DEPRESSING looking! O.R. has come a long way with filling empty car dealerships and new business! (No, I am not interested in moving again but I am glad the city is LOOKING healthier today0
Charlie Jernigan says
Thanks David. I hope that when you are ready to move again, we’ll be ready.
David A. Vudragovich says
Thanks Charlie and it is something that takes time. O.R. has come a long way in three years. You cannot just have a bunch of newer bigger houses pop up. Many people I know do not have a lot of patience or understand of what it takes to make the change (and I am not claiming to know it all! But do know part of it, working together) Long as the city keeps moving forward, not stagnating, it should get there.
Anne Phillips says
One of the issues has been the incredible roadblocks and obstacles the city puts up for real estate developers. As a former part owner of The Palisades and some Briarcliff home development, I can personally attest to those problems. I know many contractors and developers that choose not to work in Oak Ridge because of this. The problems John Chilton had as well as other residential developers is read about far and wide and unfortunately Oak Ridge has the reputation of causing problems instead of helping solve them. It will take a long time to undo that damage even if the city has addressed it.
Charlie Jernigan says
Anne, it would help me, and perhaps others, to understand more precisely what the issues you faced. If, for example, it involved the kinds of utilities allowed, the width of the roads or the amount of green space required, those are pretty well known and are choices that Oak Ridge made for ourselves.
If what you’re describing from from the 100,000 ft view are things that we should be on the lookout for or possibly should consider changing, I for one, would like to know what you have seen.
Anne Phillips says
Charlie, I would love to give you specifics, and I have many, but most of those are already in the archives of the Oak Ridger and in the planning commission minutes. I merely stated another reason why Oak Ridge has had problems with housing.
John Huotari says
Thank you all for the great discussion.
I once saw a study from the early 1970s (I think it was 1974) that addressed this question of how to get more Oak Ridge workers to live in Oak Ridge. If I recall correctly, the study was done by the Oak Ridge Chamber of Commerce, and it said only about 40 percent of Oak Ridge workers lived in Oak Ridge. Today, the percentage is reported to be even lower.
So, this is an issue that Oak Ridge has been working on for at least 40 years.
But maybe we’re turning the corner, as David suggests. I can say that Oak Ridge now has more developments recently completed, under way, or proposed than it has in any of the previous nine years I’ve been reporting on the city. It’s incredible, really, when you stop to consider all of them, from a potential inclusion in the National Park System to the $6.5 billion UPF to the potential redevelopment of the Oak Ridge Mall to the new Kroger Marketplace. There are also many smaller projects, including new restaurants and grocery stores, a new hotel and gas station, and the proposed redevelopment of the Alexander Inn and part of Jackson Square. So, I’m optimistic.
But I don’t know how these developments will affect our housing.
We’ve heard anecdotal reasons why people choose not to live in Oak Ridge. But I wonder if anyone has ever done a formal survey to find out the top reasons Oak Ridge workers decided not to live here. I think that would certainly provide some insight.
Charlie Jernigan says
John, one aspect that I am particularly interested in and have asked the Chamber about is the value of these large projects that come to Oak Ridge, creating jobs, but those job holders are not captured as residents. Especially if the project construction is operated on a sales tax free basis, we get little in return for our hosting compared to if we were competitive on retail and housing fronts and the project construction was normally taxed.
Our economic loss due to losing the new job-holders was not measured by the Chamber at that time.
I am also optimistic on the retail front and highly hopeful on the housing front.
The one aspect that I would like to note is that some of this recent development overwhelmed some of our WWII era housing. This should be a warning to those interested in preserving those neighborhoods as the were originally developed since, as they are today, they are not sustainable against these pressures. We need a new model for the future of these neighborhoods.
Ellen Smith says
As a long-time ORNL employee, I’ve observed that one reason (not the only reason) why so many of the people who work here don’t live here is that a large fraction of new hires already live some place else in the region.
Almost all of the people hired in administrative and technical support positions, as well as in “blue collar” jobs, are hired locally. Many of those people reside outside Oak Ridge, in places like Knoxville, Clinton, Harriman, Kingston, Alcoa, and Powell, and it’s unrealistic to think they would move to Oak Ridge just because that’s where they found a job.
At the professional level, a large fraction of the new hires have some sort of association with the University of Tennessee (most often because they recently completed a degree there) and have already established Knoxville as “home”. Similarly, a few years back my division hired a few engineers from TVA, who also had made their homes in Knoxville near their TVA jobs.
Among the new professional-level hires who were recruited from somewhere else, quite a few do choose to live in Oak Ridge. I have the impression that many of those who don’t do so want to be closer to UT — for example, because it provides job opportunities for their “trailing spouse”, because they are coming here directly from a college town and they want to continue that lifestyle, or because they want to start part-time graduate studies.
johnhuotari says
Thank you, Ellen.
Charlie Jernigan says
Here are a couple of ideas.
Preservation is nice especially as part of the National Park. I would like a cemesto or two be added to a flattop to let visitors get a better feeling for family life in the neighborhoods of the Secret City. If we have a variety available that helps tell the story.
In the neighborhoods, we need to be thinking about some reorganizing, probably incremental although large scale would be more efficient. The lots are just too small since we lost one of the largest public transportation systems in the nation. Incremental might mean, buy two lots for a modern sized house and yard with off street parking. Or it might mean, buy three lots for a 2×2 apartment building with off street parking for the 4 tenants.
These neighborhoods are great for their views and their proximity to town and work. And starting the trend to make them attractive to prospective residents while allowing our current residents to feel secure in their investment and the lives they have lived in their homes is the balancing act that lies before us.
We certainly need to root out the major decay where it exists. Any vacant lots produced from this will allow the incremental redevelopment to begin when combined with a neighboring house or two becoming available for sale naturally. And, or course, the Land Bank portion of the “Not in our City” program would be a vehicle to encourage such an incremental shift in these valuable neighborhoods over the years.
David A. Vudragovich says
Ellen, thank you for the reminder that local people get hired. My wife was recruited from Pittsburgh and I get that mindset of “well doesn’t everyone transfer here?”.
The other thing I wanted to point out (as a member of multiple Chambers) is Chambers of Commerce are about Commerce and businesses, not households (I pay dues, home owners do not). Chambers recruit and grow businesses. While they may track it, they do not play as much of a role in getting people into houses as getting the businesses here and helping them network and grow.
Charlie Jernigan says
Absolutely correct, David. However it is in any Chamber’s interest to pay attention to where their new job holders live since their income is spent on other local products and services from firms outside of its membership.
Clearly it is not a first order concern, but where new-comers live is certainly a second order effect that is a factor for the rest of the membership of the Chamber and the rest of the community that it and its members are a part of.
John Huotari says
Good point, David. I’m not sure the Oak Ridge Chamber of Commerce is as involved in housing as it was even just a few years ago.
johnhuotari says
Do you have a model in mind, or are you aware of one?
Denny Phillips says
Careful John or we will be on the hook for the next feasability study, an Oak Ridge specialty.
johnhuotari says
I’m not really proposing a feasibility study, just some kind of formal survey of DOE workers that asks those who don’t live in Oak Ridge why they choose not to. That ought to give us some insight into what appears to be a years-old question. I’m not aware of a survey like this being done recently.
Denny Phillips says
I know you weren’t John, I was just being silly.
What you suggest would be useful. I would think Charlie would be a good one to administer it or perhaps the chamber. I would think it would be as simple as printing off a few thousand postcards with a few select questions and a comment section.
Denny Phillips says
A phone survey would be even cheaper, though you limit your feedback to yes and no answers.
johnhuotari says
I should clarify that although this appears to be a years-old question, I don’t know how regularly local officials and leaders worked on it between 1974 and 2000. I moved here in 2000, and it’s been an issue as long as I’ve lived here.
Skirnir Hamilton says
Let me share a little bit about our journey to Oak Ridge. We lived in Wisconsin when my husband accepted a job at the lab. We came down for a our house hunting trip and the real estate agent we were assigned had an office Farragut and didn’t know Oak Ridge very well. Having seen the comments on Oak Ridge schools, we really wanted Oak Ridge. We tried working with him, but he kept aiming us towards Harden Valley, Knoxville, etc. and not Oak Ridge. He was showing us homes that we had found on Trulia ourselves. But those listings weren’t the best as showing location. The location of those homes were narrow roads, no sidewalks and hilly. Not the best for me, as someone who loves to walk, be outside and bike. When we finally found a side of Oak Ridge we liked, it was time to head back to Wisconsin, where we also put an offer on a house in Hardin Valley which was not accepted and we decided we didn’t want. Then we came back into transitional housing on the side of Oak Ridge that we liked and requested an Oak Ridge real estate agent. She had much more understanding what existed in Oak Ridge and more understanding of what we were looking for. In the end, we bought a condo, as it was more in our price range.
So yes, the non-Oak Ridge real estate agent was a problem for us. But so was the lack of middle income housing. We didn’t like the more Western side of Oak Ridge for biking, walking, etc. but loved the Emory Valley Road, East side of Oak Ridge, but most everything there was more expensive than we wanted to pay. We wanted to be able to sell our home in Wisconsin and have our mortgage paid off, so that in three years when our son would be heading to college, we could afford to help pay for it. Many of the homes on the East side of Oak Ridge are rather expensive, even though quite nice. The homes in central Oak Ridge seemed quite small with the flat tops and WWII housing, etc. Oak Ridge is not the most bicycle or walking friendly either. Getting utilities put in your name is not the easiest easier.
Than the school even put up barriers to us settling here. My son was in a certain class back in WI, but Oak Ridge High thought they were the best school in the US and my son would not be able to be in the same class here as he was there. The teachers made it clear they did not want him in the class, but when we insisted, they relented, but put lots of pressure on him. So his first day of school slightly into the second semester, they showed him to his first class and gave him his schedule and said have fun. No map, no tour, no nothing at all. You would think that a school who deals with transfers would be more willing to help them adjust. Hardin Valley when we talked to them, were willing to work with us, Oak Ridge on the other hand treated us like we should be grateful that they will let my son go there. I have to say I have been impressed with how well my son has done at the High SChool with how little cooperation they have given him or us. They really treated us like we should be bowing down on our knees and thanking the administration that they would let our son go there.
So for us, we nearly went elsewhere due to a non-Oak Ridge real estate agent, a school system that thinks it is better than everyone else and reminds all out of towners that they don’t deserve to be there, and a city that doesn’t have a lot of middle income housing. We were looking more for the $150K to $190K housing that had some sidewalks and ways to go places without using a car.
Charlie Jernigan says
Thank you for your story. You have given us a level of detail that can be worked with to improve our future here in Oak Ridge. I hope the various people who can affect these obstacles will pay attention. We need to solve these problems together.
David A. Vudragovich says
My question is do you remember how you ended up with the first agent? Online? Relocation company referred it? Future coworker sent you? HR department? Or did one of them give you only one name? I know from being in the sales, we always try to give multiple names and let the client decide (that way if something does not work out, it is not as much me being the cause) Reading what you wrote, I am prone to believe you may have started with a less experienced agent, not just one from outside Oak Ridge or Anderson County. Thank you for your comments!
Denny Phillips says
I appreciate all the anecdotal stories from out of town scientists moving to the area, but they are only one slice of the pie.
SNS and UPF are two examples of another giant slice which isn’t being addressed. Both projects were/will be staffed by considerably more workers during construction than during operation.
It is this demographic, the hourly laborer, that high property tax rates, high utility rates, inflated property values and lack of large building lots effect decision making on more disproportionately (just an opinion based on my 20+ years interfacing with the “blue collar” portion of the population in the area).
In my experience, I find that it is this demographic that drives retail and sales tax growth more so than the six figure income bracket demographic. I have been told, as nauseum, by trade workers that they choose surrounding communities (not Farragut) because they get land, zoning flexibility, and lower taxation. Many choose other areas for their “rural” appeal for anything from farming, home workshops, or sporting opportunities (hunting, fishing, 4-wheeling, etc.) to something as simple as “I can have a bonfire with my friends without the neighbors calling the authorities”.
I realize Oak Ridge can’t be everything to everyone, but many resources the COR has been handed (Parcel A, Haw Ridge, etc) have been either used by the city to try and swoon the Farragut dissidents or appeal to greenies rather than broaden to lifestyle options to potential residents. Claxton and Bull Run have become the largest voting districts in the county and have experienced growth because, in my estimation, for the small price of driving two more miles down Edgemoor Road and across a bridge residents can have relaxed zoning, zero municipal tax, elbow room and a little more country way of life.
I’m not entirely sure why Oak Ridge leadership has tried to deny its regional affiliation (and trust me when I say that attitudes like Mark Caldwell’s when he called Oliver Springs and. Marlow “dumps” are perceived as the prevailing opinion of Oak Ridge leadership) and appeal to residents in surrounding areas
Denny Phillips says
It can be debated all day whether or not its cheaper or more expensive to live in Oak Ridge or Farragut using this variable or that.
One thing is for sure though, people generally despise paying taxes. You can send everyone in the state a coupon saying “This Weekend Only: Save 25% on All Computers and Clothing” and you might see a slight uptick in activity. But tell everyone in the state a “This Weekend Only: Sales Tax Free Weekend” and you will find the stores packed with shoppers.
It doesn’t have to make sense, that’s just the way it is.
Trina Baughn says
Excellent example, Denny. I would add that local government’s ability to influence the economy is not as great as some would like to believe. If that were the case, Oak Ridge would be in much better shape than it is. 40+ years and $100’s of $1,000’s of taxpayer monies to solve one of our greatest problems and we’ve not made a dent…..
While we should continue to do what we can, reducing the property tax rate is one of (if not THE) the only fair ways that local or state government can make itself more financially appealing. Just ask some of our NY, NJ and SoCal transplants.
Steve Frank says
Why don’t more people move to Oak
Ridge? Maybe the local government is out of touch with the people in
Tennessee, it is called extreme environmentalism. Oak Ridge is a
member of, ICLEI – Local Governments for Sustainability. ICLEI has
close ties with United Nations environmental policies including the
Convention on Biological Diversity and Climate Change (ie. Global
Warming). Before you accuse me of being a conspiracy nut, please
visit; http://archive.iclei.org/index.php?id=13116 and see for yourself.
This is the same as, Obama’s environmental agenda. Under this plan, regulations, taxes, and fees will do nothing but increase. To show how far out of touch this is with Tennesseans, last year the state passed HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION 587: “WHEREAS, the United Nations Agenda 21 is a comprehensive plan of extreme environmentalism, social engineering, and global political control that was initiated at the United Nations Conference on Environment and Development (UNCED) held in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil in 1992; and  http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/107/Bill/HJR0587.pdf and thems just the facts!
You folks may have chosen this for yourself but don’t expect that others will want to live in a community that is highly regulated by governemnt.
Keith Hyatt says
Knox Realtors actively discourage prospective buyers from buying in OR. They work against us even though they are not supposed to. I know a former realtor over there and she said that was indeed the case. The article is right, taxes on the surface are the reason given why everyone runs to KnoxFarragut, when in reality, you add up the increased cost in gas, wear on your car, paying for fire protection, garbage etc, it all comes out the same or less to live in OR. Plus there is the hazard of the big pileup that will happen in Solway one afternoon too. (If you lived in OR, you would be home by now). I think we need Oak Ridge leadership running the plants and encouraging new employees to at least look here first. They might find they can get a good sized house, abiet older, for a lot less up front than the cookie cutters in Hardin Valley and Farragut, fix it up, and later sell it for a profit and move up. I do wish DOE would adjust the PILT so we could at least be on a level field with Knox Vegas property tax wise.
Andrew Howe says
Personally, I think the whole prop tax thing is a scam. I think taxes should be based on something a bit more appropriate than the house value. Number of residents, for example. How many kids are in the school. How many cars people have. How much resources they use.
Of course, a formula taking all those variables into account would end up looking like the IRS tax formula – too complex. So how about something simple, since we’re all sharing the ‘goods and services’ we pay for with those taxes. How about we simlpy charge anyone living here a flat rate to live here.
You see, I bought a really cheap little A-house. Great location, but run down and unkept. I’ve improved the place a TON by spending money on it. so for me to be asked to pay MORE money to the city because I improved my home seems wrong. I’m helping my neighborhood look better, and that helps everyone. Why should I be penalized for doing something good. This is a national paradigm, of course. I suggest we be the progressive little town we can be, and change that!
BTW, property taxes here are on the high end of the scale, as are the county taxes, so people saying it’s a reason they don’t want to live here makes complete sense to me.
But for many people the reason they don’t want to live here is actually because of the local politics and the town’s history of horrid financial practices. This BS with the sewer that the citizens are now paying for is a prime example. I use, on avergage, a half unit of water a month, which is well under the bar for the ‘minimum charge’. It’s simply not fair to be charging me so much for water.
We’ve also got those bloody awful redlight cameras STILL. Those babies are still bringing in a ton of cash, and yet at the same time the city was reaping the benefits from that profit (a profit which totally costs us visitation – people actively avoid our town because of them), they up’ed the prop taxes, the gas, the water, etc.
Just how much money does this little town need? I mean really. Soooo much can be done with sooooo little, and yet it seems like our city is always needing more, more, more.
Why? Why? Why?!!
Git yer grubby little self-serving mits out of my galderned wallet. Nuff said.
Raymond Charles Kircher says
Yes, the fact that Oak Ridge still lives with the fenced in accessibility of these roads, at many times it feels like we are waiting to check-in or check-out of this city, even today. If Knoxville doesn’t correct its malfunction junction at Oak Ridge Hwy and Pellissippi Pkwy very soon, Kingston will be seeing more OakRidgers than Knoxville. The road improvement on 96 and 58 west of Oak Ridge will soon be in the news much more.
David Allred says
Our story is a little different. When my wife and I married, she was finishing up a residency for lisensure in psychology. I had a Master’s degree in theology, both of us were under-employed. She came from a big town and wasn’t sure if living in a smaller Oak Ridge would feel the same. But what it really came down to WAS the property tax and sq footage available for the dollar. We found a few homes we liked and for the same amount of money we got more square footage in Turkey Creek (1997 back before it was built up). When we calculated the monthly payment it was going to be about $100 less.
$100 a month might not seem like a lot — and now after having been married for 16 years I can see it really isn’t too much more. But when you are 27 years old, working two jobs to make ends meet, and paying off school loans – that extra $100 feels huge.
When we went to buy our 2nd home in 2002, we wanted out of Turkey Creek and something closer to Oak Ridge where we both worked. Same scenario. We found a house in Clinton with much more sq footage for far less money than homes in the Briarcliff community or the West end. Again, due to the tax rate, we would pocket another $100 month for what amounted to a simple 10 minute drive to town — a scenic river drive at that.
It was too much country for us though – our neighbors were firing guns in their yard at all hours of the day and night. We had one small child and another on the way. We moved to Briarcliff two years later and bit the bullet. The house we are in cost 33% more and is actually smaller than what we had in Clinton, partly due to the inflation from the housing boom. We pay more in property tax. We save on gas for sure, I drive maybe eight miles per day.
We’re finally happy here though and have no complaints. But we aren’t in the same situation we were when we first got married.
I think it’s all too easy to forget what it’s like when you’re first starting out in life. You want to maximize your monthly budget, get the most house you can for the dollar. At that time, Oak Ridge just wasn’t a reasonable option for us. Part of it was tax. The other part was simple supply/demand econcomics.
Peter Scheffler says
I think there is another important factor not yet mentioned by others. If I were coming into the area to work at the federal facilities in Oak Ridge, or one of the contractors, today, I would not expect that job to be long-term. I would rather live in the Farragut/Hardin Valley area because I would be closer to employment in Loudon County, Maryville, and Knox County when I lost my job in Oak Ridge. If nothing were available in those areas and I needed to leave the area entirely, I could sell my home faster in a larger and more dynamic market.
Matt Reedy says
I’m a City employee who moved here from Virginia in 2005. I knew that I wanted to live in Oak Ridge before I took the interview based on my research into the schools and park system, and simply so that I could practice what I preach. I contacted an Oak Ridge realtor who showed me over 20 homes in my price range (under $100K at the time) and I made an offer on the only one that had curb appeal and a yard. My wife and I have made several changes to it to suit our families needs. I love living in Oak Ridge, but I almost gave up on finding a house here 7 years ago. More recently, some friends have relocated here from Colorado and Virginia and I have tried to convince them to look at Oak Ridge (sending links, suggesting realtors, etc). All 3 families have bought homes in Hardin Valley and Farragut and never looked at a home in Oak Ridge. When i asked “Why?” they said hiring folks, co-workers, etc discouraged Oak Ridge and because all the BUZZ was about Hardin Valley. They preferred to be “in the middle” of jobs and shopping.