Note: This is a copy of letter Anderson County Commissioner Myron Iwanski sent to the county commission and county mayor on Monday.
As discussed at the March County Commission meeting, I ask that a compromise regarding placement of the “In God We Trust” sign on the courthouse be added to the agenda for the April 8 Operations Committee meeting and the April 15 County Commission meeting.
There are several important issues with the sign as approved at the February meeting:
- It caused divisiveness, pitting community against community and church against church, and even disagreement within churches.
- Ironically and sadly, this issue has caused a level of hatefulness in online blogs and in the public that I am sure community leaders, including the ministers asking for the sign, did not encourage or want to see happen.
- As pointed out by the county law director (after the meeting to vote on approving the sign), placing a sign for religious reasons increases our legal liability. Contrary to the intent of our rules, this issue was forced to an immediate vote—before receiving this legal advice. I believe anyone reviewing comments by commissioners and others at that meeting will conclude it was passed for religious rather than patriotic and historic reasons. If challenged in the courts, we will risk hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars to defend this action.
I believe our role as leaders is not to divide the community but to try to bring citizens together to work toward consensus and solve problems. Valid points have been made by all sides of this issue, but I believe there is room for a compromise.
A compromise on this issue that I and others on County Commission have suggested is to place one of four different signs at each of the four entrances to the courthouse.
I recently spoke to a couple of the ministers who led the discussion in favor of the “In God We Trust” sign. I believe they and many others on both sides of this issue understand the need for compromise and agree with including other signs.
The four signs I suggest are:
- In God We Trust—a national motto and on our money;
- E pluribus unum (Out of Many, One)—the country’s first motto, which is currently on all coins and all the official U.S. seals;
- Liberty and Justice for All—part of our history, beginning with the revolutionary war, part of our Pledge of Allegiance and Constitution, and a very relevant statement for our courts and county government; and
- Agriculture and Commerce—the State of Tennessee motto.
This compromise allows for placing “In God We Trust” on the courthouse but does so in a historic and patriotic context—which as pointed out by our county law director significantly lowers our liability risk.
Denny Phillips says
We already voted to put In God We Trust on the courthouse for patriotic reasons.
I have noticed that those that oppose the signs do so for religious reasons, but we must separate church and state.
Mark Caldwell says
For patriotic reasons? Lord God!
Charlie Jernigan says
Which religion are you talking about?
Denny Phillips says
Not sure, but I keep getting told by one of my commissioners that the signs offend people’s religious beliefs.
Apparently whatever religion it is faces pre-civil rights type discrimination, according to my commissioner, so he has proposed Jim Crow signs that are separate but equal.
Myself, I think a 3/4ths Compromise is more in order since three fourths of the commissioners voted for the signs. I think “IGWT” signs over three courthouse entrances and no sign over one of them on behalf of those that believe in nothing.
Charlie Jernigan says
I was just concerned that you might sprain your back with all that pretzel logic you’ve been cooking. Take care of yourself.
“I’ve never met Napoleon but I plan to find the time.” – Steely Dan
Curt Kelsey says
Your circular reasoning is farther ahead in the race for more government intrusion Charlie.
Charlie Jernigan says
Curt, what more government intrusion regarding these signs could there be beyond the orchestrated political push to divide the county along theocratic lines?
It is no wonder several of the ministers that were recruited for this are now seeing that they were “used”.
Mark Caldwell says
If you’re not sure, why do you keep writing that the signs are opposed for religious reasons?
And why are you so sure the Baptist coalition and others wanted the signs for “patrioticâ€
reasons?
Denny Phillips says
First of all, I don’t “keep” writing that. I’ve written it once. And I am not sure of what religion it is that is offended by “In God We Trust”, I just know they keep writing letters on how it violates their religious freedoms. You do raise a valid point I hadn’t really thought about, some could oppose the national motto because they don’t like America.
Secondly, Baptist citizens can lobby for the signs for religious reasons, and many likely did. The legal question is whether commissioners voted for the signs for the purpose of “establishment of religion”. You, nor I, nor Mr. Iwanski have no idea whether any particular commissioner, group of commissioners, or the whole commission voted to place the motto on the courthouse for the purposes of establishing religion.
Thus, my statement that the commissioners voted to install them for patriotic reasons is as valid as Mr. Iwanski’s blanket statement that it was done for religious reasons.
Denny Phillips says
And by the by, I attended the commission meeting in which the motion passed. I guess I must have been paying attention to the speakers instead of rolling my eyes as they spoke (like certain commissioners I won’t name), but I noticed numerous veterans approach the commission to voice their patriotic reasons for supporting the signs, as well as others discussing the historical significance and cultural relevance.
mary connolly says
Mr. bardino,
Have you read the guidelines for posting on this website?
Frankly, I find your remarks completely offensive.
Curt Kelsey says
probably the religion of THE ONE Bigger more anti-Constitutional government.
Charlie Jernigan says
Gees Curt, it isn’t anti-constitutional to support the constitution.
Curt KELSEY says
The religion of BIGGER government and less freedom.
Charlie Jernigan says
That’s not a religion. It is a cheap republican talking point that is intended to be mindlessly spouted.
Don’t fall into that trap that lets conservatives be seen a drones. We are better than that.
Sam Hopwood says
Much ado about nothing, let’s cut out the political posturing and get on with the county’s business. There is much to be done.
Jay Smith says
I’m very much in favor of this compromise. It is smart and very encompassing of all views and concerns, much like the U.S. it self.
Charlie Jernigan says
Yes, this is a reasonable compromise, but I think that the proponents regard this as won so no compromise is necessary.
You don’t build a political future on the fears of the past.
Eileen Slater says
In God We Trust or nothing, please. If our national motto, and a reference to God, is more than our commissioners can stand, then so be it. I’d rather see the pro-In God We Trust commissioners cave to the four foot-dragging, fear-mongering, excuse-making, uncooperative commissioners from Oak Ridge (not Mead or Hitchcock) than compromise on the national founding principle of In God We Trust.
Eileen Slater says
Correction to my comment: it was Mead and Shuey of Oak Ridge who didn’t vote against In God We Trust on the courthouse.
Curt Kelsey says
Thanks for your correction.You are right Whitey Hitchcock opposed the national motto. ‘In God We Trust’.I oppose him NOW ! For PATRIOTIC and Religious reasons.
Curt Kelsey says
Myron’s letter seems like a political letter Pilate would have written after the hard-line divisive approach he took failed . Now it’s his idea. More circular reasoning by political people aspiring to get his old job back ,at any price. No thanks,we have a good County mayor NOW !
Charlie Jernigan says
Curt, at least you realize on some level that all this is a political ploy to keep this mayor in office. Why else is the whole family involved in its defense?
Sam Hopwood says
Has anyone else noticed the large beautiful sign on the east entrance to OR just before the railroad overpass as you enter from Clinton? I will be happy to contribute to it’s cost if need be.
Hopefully the OR sign nazi does not belong to the ACLU!!
Charlie Jernigan says
Be careful what you wish for. It is anonymous so it is from someone who needs to be secret like the Tennessee Taliban and you know how much they hate our American Freedoms!
Denny Phillips says
My, my, my. Hard to believe this is the same fellow I got the speech on “crusades” and “insults”.
The word “God” now equals racism and Taliban. Talk about hyperbole.
Charlie Jernigan says
Sorry you can’t keep; let me go through this slowly for you. Sam pointed out an “In God We Trust” billboard just outside of Oak Ridge with timing supporting the Mayor’s campaign to separate Oak Ridge from the rest of the county. He indicated that he would support whomever paid for that sign.
I pointed out that the sign was posted anonymously indicating a secretive organization was its sponsor. I suggested that an organization like the Tennessee Taliban would fit that description especially since they would love to establish a theocracy here in Tennessee which would replace our American Freedoms with arbitrary rules that would apply to all.
I believe that the people blindly supporting this campaign do not trust our Freedoms or at best might be considered cafeteria Americans who only pick and choose which freedoms to support. That is the beginning of a slippery slope that could end this great nation.
If someone can’t stand up for America, and I mean all of America and all of its Freedoms, then they should be opposed. I don’t want even a Tennessee version of Sharia Law.
God Bless America!
Denny Phillips says
I saw a story on the news about the state limiting pain pill supplies to pharmacies and how certain customers could not get their medications.
I didn’t know they were doing the same with Prozac.
Charlie Jernigan says
If by that you mean that I should be taking prozac to calm down and ignore the signs of my American Freedoms at risk, I think you might want to think again. You remind me of a saying from Colin Powell:
“Never neglect details. When everyone’s mind is dulled or distracted the leader must be doubly vigilant.” In this case Myron Iwanski is doubly vigilant and clear headed.
If I had any prozac, I would give them to you so you could sleep at night, numbed and dulled.
God Bless America and all of Her Freedoms!
Denny Phillips says
I’ll leave you be on the message board Charley. I know you’ve got to listen to the Alex Jones special on “In God We Trust” signs.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p_u3YRZb74w
Charlie Jernigan says
Now that you know the “Rest of the Story”, I hope that you would be able to watch Alex and know that he represents a minority opinion, that if ever enacted, would be like grease on the slippery slope to oblivion.
Our American heritage to too important to give up meekly.
God Bless America and all of Her Freedoms!!
Curt Kelsey says
Hey,how about you quote us some ‘Rules for Radicals’ by Saul Alinski Charlie. After all he and Obama have the same platform on Constitutional Law.
Denny Phillips says
Ha! About as doubly vigilant as Powell was about checking for WMD’s.
Charlie Jernigan says
He was about the only one who admitted his mistake. The mayor should learn from that and accept this fair compromise and save on the bill boards.
Denny Phillips says
This isn’t “the mayor”‘s bill. Brought forth by citizens, motioned by McKamey and enacted by commission.
Denny Phillips says
Mr. Iwanski then brought his proposal to commission, it failed. Again, voted on by commissioners.
We will see at the Operations Meeting whether Mr. Iwanski chooses to follow Robert’s Rules of Order and the law or whether he will attempt to circumvent it.
Mr. Iwanski and Ms. Biloski made very apparent that they were sticklers for process, lets see if they live by their own words.
Curt Kelsey says
It’s always politics Charlie ,Myron is NOT a real Republican is MY point.I don’t care what the guy thinks,he’s smart no doubt,but I like people that wear the same uniform as my team to play for that team,not fumble the ball to help the other team. So do you think he will run as a Democrat (Which is OK by me) or a Republican?
Charlie Jernigan says
Curt, I don’t know if he would run or what flavor he would run as.
But I do know that when you divide the country into two piles (Democrats and Republicans covers most), the individuals in each pile will not all look alike. In fact, by almost any measure they will overlap. Personally, if I want to trust one pile, I won’t be able to trust them all to support everything I want. But I would expect to get more support from them than the other pile. But when you start saying this guy doesn’t belong here because he doesn’t believe like me on “this”, and somebody else does the same on “that”, you wind up weakening your whole pile with distrust.
An individual who can appeal to both piles will almost always win and satisfy the electorate and win again.
This is why I don’t like the dividing… you become vulnerable to someone with broader appeal.
Curt Kelsey says
Well put Charlie. But my belief is that we are being overwhelmed with divide and conquer politics ,(primarily on a national level),and I am for all out opposition to the media driven consensus nonsense that we are being fed as pablum. My Dad survived Pearl Harbor and consequently married my mother and I was somehow born in the greatest country ever.I have NO intention of letting go of my Constitutional beliefs.The Motto is just a way IMHO of letting it all out in the open.For that I am glad this happened.I like for the good guys to control the narrative at least once during the course of the game ,so to speak. If not this issue ,it would be one that matters less ,but every now and then it’s good to play offense and score one just for sake of not being shut out. i played ball all the way up to the college level and played on a lot of teams that wouldn’t have winning records at the end of the season,but it just made me hit harder and run faster.That’s about the total of my reasons for fighting fake Republicans .
David Allred says
As usual Myron is the voice of reason. Thumbs up from this pastor on the proposal.
Curt Kelsey says
Self serving reasons at best . He’s a politician David.
Denny Phillips says
What do you want to bet that Mr. Allred doesn’t throw away those awful “IGWT” violations of the Constitution and blasphemies to God when they are piled up in his collection plates?
Charlie Jernigan says
So you’re planning a protest in his church because he supports the constitution and doesn’t want to risk exposing the county to needless expense defending this religious exercise by county government?
Take the compromise. You get your religious expression and we citizens are protected.
Denny Phillips says
Lol. I don’t do “protest”.
Curt Kelsey says
I’m still waiting for his explanation as a “Pastor” posting his opinion that the “Gospel Failed” .He went away for a while when I called him on that. He has offered NO reply .What pastor says things like that ?
Mark Caldwell says
Does anybody know who issued the anonymous mass-mailed postcard designed to inflict personal damage to Mr. Jerry Creasey? Surely it wasn’t from good Christians or patriotic Americans.
Eileen Slater, Marlow says
I received the above-referenced postcard, I suppose because I live in Mr. Creasy’s district. How does a political mailing reporting to citizens Mr. Creasy’s stand on an issue “inflict personal damage” to him? His votes and comments are a matter of record, and if they are unpopular with some of his constituents, well, that’s politics. I personally think he is wrong in his take one this issue, and also do not like some of his and Mr. Iwanski’s tactics in throwing up straw men (Mr. Iwanski’s concern about an expensive lawsuit; that question has been asked and answered) or Mr. Creasy’s dredging up racial discrimination as somehow comparable to this simple request (the Oak Ridge, guest column, 3/2/13). Let’s all gather, again, at the Courthouse, again, and watch the four petulant commissioners who were outvoted try, again, to find yet another avenue to either get their way, or completely dilute the meaningfulness of our national motto, hideously offensive as it may be (sarcasm on), In God We Trust.
Mark Caldwell says
Well now Eileen, if it was a political mailing, then the sender’s name would have appeared on the postcard. However, if was sent to inflict personal damage, then the sender would have sent it anonymously.
That’s what cowards do.
Regarding your reference to “straw men,” a potential lawsuit is probably inevitable. We want our elected officials to consider all possible results emanating from county commissioner’s votes.
Our current national motto was enacted during the “Red Scare” in the 1950s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_we_trust). Surely we are a little smarter than then, but maybe not so much in Anderson County.
Nevertheless, the senders of the anonymous postcard are neither good Christians nor patriotic Americans.
In God We Trust; All Others Pay Cash.
Denny Phillips says
“Probably inevitable”. I gotta send that one to Yogi Berra!
Eileen Slater, Marlow says
Good one Denny.
Mark Caldwell says
Yogi Berra is dead. By the way, are you still getting paid by the county to write these messages?
Charlie Jernigan says
Mark, you’re getting the whole family rush.
Clearly there is a lot of political hankie pankie going on here and you can bet they are not following state law on political campaign disclosure. On top of that to quote an open government source describing a piece of legislation that died before passage as their justification is pretty laughable.
Denny Phillips says
Lol. Nice try, but your boy Chucky is the only one here posting on government time.
Curt Kelsey says
“I’m not as optimistic about the future as i was in the past”
LONG LIVE YOGI 🙂
Eileen Slater, Marlow says
Ok Mr. Caldwell: (1) the postcard was a political mailing because it addressed a political issue and statements made by a public official. The reasons for anonymity are many, but probably mainly to frustrate those who want to twist the message by personalizing it based on who wrote/sent it. It shouldn’t be personalized either way. (2) Now to the issue of the “straw man”: when county commission wanted to put a waste collection center in a county industrial park, current tenants of the park stated clearly they would sue the county based on their contracts with the county that no dump would ever be put in the park; commissioners minced words, said a collection center was not a dump, and forged ahead with their plan IN THE FACE OF A DEFINITELY PROMISED LAWSUIT which has since been filed and is currently being defended by the county. I believe Mr. Iwanski as interim county mayor facilitated the process that landed us in this suit. So why would anybody take his concern over potential legal liability seriously?
Mark Caldwell says
Eileen,
A refuse collection center is not a dump. A dump is what one sees on the side of the road in Oliver Springs and Marlow.
A political mailing has a return address. This was not a political mailing.
Denny Phillips says
It should also be noted that Anderson County is merely following the recommendations of the federal government which has encouraged the public display of the national motto…
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hconres13