To the Editor:
I have worked with mentally disabled people for more than 30 years, including serious predators.
Please do not let the apologists for the National Rifle Association try to change the subject to just reinstitutionalizing the mentally ill. Yes, the mental health system is seriously broken nationwide, but this is only a symptom of the malaise of the country that has ceased to accept responsibility for caring properly for the sick and the poor. OMG! A right to health care and food! Appalling.
Unmanaged and untreated mental illness is a national tragedy and disgrace, but it is not to blame for guns in the hands of unstable people. Our acquiescence and silence and failure to challenge the Second Amendment fanatics is the root cause.
Public safety is also a constitutional guarantee. It is time to balance all of the constitutional rights and stop allowing the paranoid and the enablers of the paranoid among us to set the agenda.
The Constitution allows for reasonable regulations of commerce, safety, flying an airplane, and many other things, both mentioned and unmentioned. There is no part of the Second Amendment that uses words that limit regulations. How many more children will need to die?
Pat Fain
Oak Ridge
Daniel Powers says
“There is not part of the Second Amendment that uses words that limit regulation.”
Except that line “the right of the people to keep and bear
Arms, shall not be infringed.”
One should not be in a hurry to give up any Rights, as Ben Franklin said in a letter “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.†Once a
Right is gone, it is gone.
As for increased safety at Schools, I would suggest having former Vets
and retired policemen to fill the role. I would suggest they past
extensive mental and criminal back ground checks first though.
I will close with that as I do not want to start a debate. I feel we
all have very different opinions and most of us are not ready or
willing to change our minds at this time.
Pat Fain says
Daniel, it is very important to read the whole of the second amendment, “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed” the words themselves “regulated militia” give authority for regulation…. at this time the right of the government to regulate is settled in law. One may disagree with this, but the courts are still upholding it.
Keep in mind that “arms” in 1796 consisted of knives, spears, tomahawks, muzzle loaded single shot pistols and rifles,etc. For those who believe that the constitution is immutable (never changing)as written, the context is pretty clear…. yu only get one shot at a time….
Pat
Daniel Powers says
“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free
state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be
infringed””
Comma, The Right of The People. The US Constitution also starts out with We the people.
To me, The People are Citizens. Furthermore criminals and those with certain conditions are not allowed to own or possess firearms.
Any ban on firearms will only effect citizens and have no impact on criminals.
I know we are not going to agree, so I say agree to disagree.
Ck Kelsey says
Daniel Wrote. “Any ban on firearms will only effect citizens and have no impact on criminals.”
True, but “Gun Control” is NOT about Guns,it’s about control and Liberals Always want more of that and are so callous in this case to use children that have died as their crisis to gain power and to misrepresent the Constitution. They also have told us that the Constitution has a “Welfare Clause” Which is rediculous because they really are advocating a “Santa Clause” government Their comprehension is backwards when it comes to the Bill of Rights.They want us to give up the 2cnd Amendment,well then how about the 4th and the 1st if they disagree with what they say (This week ) .Just sayin !
Ck Kelsey says
People can pick and choose which parts of the Constitution or Supreme Court decisions they like (agree with), or don’t like, and have a debate over them (the First Amendment part). If there’s enough support for it, they can even OVER RULE the Constitution or the Court by Constitutional Amendment.
The irony part comes in when politicians, and even at times the Supreme Court, simply IGNORE the plain language of the Constitution and proceed as they wish anyhow. The “commerce clause” and the “general welfare clause” come to mind immediately, as does the mystical “right to privacy” that was invoked in the Roe v. Wade decision
TJ Garland says
They are all one shot at a time.
If I bring you a sign that says, “I do not own any guns”, will you put it in your front yard?
TJ Garland says
Historical facts–
http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Before-They-Kill-A-People-They-Take-Away-Their-Guns-Always?page=1
Daniel Powers says
Don’t have to tell me. Already read that.
Ck Kelsey says
Hey TJ . Here’s his sgn LOL https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s480x480/406737_10151262394245896_166112979_n.png
Peggy Tiner says
The United States of America has been a free country for so long that many people now seem to think that freedom is a “right.” It is not a “right”, but a privilege bought at great cost which most of us did not pay. Freedom is not a fixed state; it must be maintained, again at a price. The armed citizens in this country are a potential fighting force, whenever needed, to protect the freedom once more. Armed citizens are able to defend themselves in their own homes when necessary. The freedom to have a gun is a right, bestowed by the founders of this country. This is a right I am not willing to give up. If this makes me a fanatic, I’m proud to be one.
Sam Hopwood says
Semi-automatic rifles with 30 round clips were made for one purpose, killing people, lots of people. They were designed and made for the military. To allow anyone but the military and LEO’s to have them is madness. We don’t allow people to own RPG’s or hand grenades do we? Why do you suppose that is?
TJ Garland says
Sam, I have had an FFL before. I have never seen a 30 round magazine for a Bushmaster in 40 years. Do not exaggerate.
There are thousands of gun laws. Criminals and drugged psychos obey none of them.
Millions of women and children have been hacked to death in Africa with machetes.
Poverty is the biggest killer of children in America. Let’s outlaw it. America has killed hundreds of thousands of children in the Middle East. Brown doesn’t count?
There are hundreds of traffic laws. Do they prevent drivers from killing 40, 000 (including themselves) a year?
I have a sign for your yard also. Your address?
Sam Hopwood says
You know my address TJ. Bring your sign and post it. I do not need a bushmaster to protect my home. You sound like the poster boy for the NRA (national redneck assoc.) You are usually not so obtuse.
John Huotari says
I think there has been a good discussion here, and I ask those participating not to make it personal. Thank you.
TJ Garland says
You pushed a button. As a Libertarian, I believe in personal property rights. The ultimate personal property is my body- my life. I must have the means to protect it. I have used my sidearm twice in the last few years to protect myself. All I did was show it and the scumbags ran away.
Other gun owners did the same thing over a million times last year.
There was a recent study done that found that when a public shooting was thwarted by a private citizen/gun owner, the loss of life was less than two people compared to when the police stopped the shooter, and the deaths were six plus average.
The LEO in this county would be overwhelmed without the support of the 5000 permit holders. Ask them.
I have no idea who you are or where you live. Have we met?
Sam Hopwood says
The keyword in your post is sidearm. No one that I know of advocates abolishing those. I have one myself registered with the ORPD. BIG difference between those and an assault rifle with a 20-30 round clip, and yes, there are 30 round clips.
TJ Garland says
Good for you! How do you register a pistol with the ORPD?
Do you have a carry permit?
You do realize that the second amendment was added to protect the colonists from England and the new US government? George Washington had a quote about matching firepower with firepower.
When all of our soldiers,sailors,,airmen and national guard are overseas, what will you use when UN troops are imported to enforce martial law? You will wish you had the RPG.
I found you on anywho.com. Meet me for a coffee and conversation and I will give you the yard sign in person.
Maybe you have a neighbor that needs it more than you.
Daniel Powers says
Registered your sidearm? That is a new one to me in this state. (not required in this state).
Also George Washington said “A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government. ”
Sam Hopwood says
I bought it in the early 1960’s in OR when there were common sense gun laws in place and there was a three day waiting period for ORPD to do a background check. “Those were the days my friends, we thought they’d never end.” Now any crazy can buy a super killing machine and after slaughtering dozens,
will blow their own brains out. Ain’t progress wonderfull??
You folks are still pretending to live back in the days of the revolutionary war. Come into the real world and deal with the real problems for a change and as I am sure that you all will be pleased to know, this is my last post on the subject at hand.
Have a great new year and hopefully some crazy will not hose you down with his pride and joy Bushmaster!!
TJ Garland says
Apparently there are 30 round mags for Bushmasters. I never use any larger than 10 rounds. Larger ones are cumbersome, tend to not feed well, and are pure Hollywood.
A clue for the clueless in the media–a Remington 1100 makes a Bushmaster seem harmless.
TJ Garland says
Any you gun control people out there own a car that goes over 45 miles an hour? That’s the max speed limit in OR. I believe that you should give up your gas guzzler and get a golf cart to save lives and be legal. There is NO reason for someone to own a deadly vehicle that can do 120 miles an hour, is there?
At least the State should put a governer on your car so that you could not speed thru a school zone and possibly harm some innocent children.
There is no difference between the argument for gun control and car control.
Hey, Beehan, I will give up my Bushmaster when you scrap your SUV.
TJ Garland says
Oops, John, can you delete Beehan’s name from my last post?
I was verbalizing my thoughts of him being the only mayor in Tennessee that is a dues paying member of Bloomberg’s anti gun coalition. You wanted to keep the posts impersonal.
Daniel Powers says
yup, don’t suggest that, he just might take you up on that offer.
John Huotari says
TJ, what I meant is that I would prefer that people not post or ask for address information here or call someone else a redneck.
TJ Garland says
Outgoing Republican Senator Ron Paul from Texas took on the National Rifle Association this week, arguing that the gun lobby’s recent proposal to place armed guards at every U.S. school is ‘just another kind of violence.’
In a statement released on Monday, the uncompromising libertarian lawmaker said that the federal government should not try to ‘pursue unobtainable safety’ and claimed that Democrats and Republicans have ‘zero moral authority to legislate against violence.’
‘This is the world of government provided “security,†a world far too many Americans now seem to accept or even endorse,’ the 77-year-old congressman wrote on his website. ‘School shootings, no matter how horrific, do not justify creating an Orwellian surveillance state in America.’
Paul, who is retiring from Congress next week, is the first Republican to publicly criticize the NRA’s proposal, which was unveiled last Friday in the aftermath of the Newtown, Connection, school massacre that took the lives of 26 people, among them 20 children, Fox News reported.
Wayne LaPierre, the CEO of the powerful gun lobby, pushed for federal funding needed to revamp the nation’s school security, with the idea of posting armed guards outside every school as a centerpiece of the plan.
‘The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,’ LaPierre said during a press conference in Washington DC.
The famously independent-minded congressman, however, forcefully disagreed with the NRA’s approach to the problem of gun violence.
‘While I certainly agree that more guns equals less crime and that private gun ownership prevents many shootings, I don’t agree that conservatives and libertarians should view government legislation, especially at the federal level, as the solution to violence,’ the veteran lawmaker noted.
Paul unfavorably compared the plan to airport security procedures, wondering whether Americans really want to live in a world of police checkpoints, surveillance cameras, X-ray scanners and warrantless physical searches.
The congressman also chided people in the left who have been demanding that lawmakers tighten gun restrictions. The lawmaker insisted that new laws will do nothing to prevent a mentally ill person from opening fire.
Paul suggested that real change can happen only when the U.S. makes a commitment to rebuilding civil society based on family, religion and free market, not through passing new, increasingly restrictive laws.
Describing the calls for more gun control ‘understandable, but misguided,’ Paul wrote that the government is incapable of creating a world without risks.
‘Only a totalitarian society would even claim absolute safety as a worthy ideal, because it would require total state control over its citizens’ lives,’ h wrote. ‘ We shouldn’t settle for substituting one type of violence for another.’
David A Vudragovich says
I thought I saw a post just last week saying Clinton wanted to put police and guards at high schools back in the mid/late 90s. I think the media supported him then. Is anyone better at looking up these political things online?
Daniel Powers says
David, you are correct. hard to find an exact article from back then, but this even has an audio clip. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/12/21/Flashback-Clinton-Cops-in-Schools
Angi Agle says
Well said, Sam. The right to own a firearm is one thing; the right to own stuff intended for warfare is quite another. There will always be extremists on both sides, so it’s time for the great majority of reasonable people to speak up.
TJ Garland says
Do you own a firearm? Done any shooting?
EVERYTHING that can kill is being used somewhere in the world today for killing in large numbers. If you school board members wanted to really help solve the problem, then quit passing out mind altering drugs in the nurses station every morning. FYI, every school shooting involved these drugs.
You might confiscate any violent computer games brought to school. Treat them like you would like to treat handguns. Picket Wallmart to quit selling violent games.
It would cost at least $1.5 million a year to put a full time officer in all the county’s schools. Mayes’ plan would not fund two officers. The courts cannot collect court costs now, and the jail is overflowing.
Maybe rich liberal gun grabbers could fund an officer each.
Sell your two-ton steel 4-wheel killer and drive a golf cart around town. Save dozens of potential lives.
TJ Garland says
William Anderson said–Lest anyone believe that denial of individual self-defense is a top agenda for Progressives, think again. Both Canada and Great Britain essentially have outlawed individual self-defense, and should any individual use any kind of “offensive weapon” in self-defense, then that person faces extremely harsh punishments. Joyce Lee Malcolm writes:
A homeowner (in Great Britain) who discovered two robbers in his home held them with a toy gun while he telephoned the police. When the police arrived they arrested the two men, and also the homeowner, who was charged with putting someone in fear with a toy gun. An elderly woman who scared off a gang of youths by firing a cap pistol was charged with the same offense.
She continues:
The BBC offers this advice for anyone in Britain who is attacked on the street: You are permitted to protect yourself with a briefcase, a handbag, or keys. You should shout “Call the Police” rather than “Help.” Bystanders are not to help. They have been taught to leave such matters to the professionals. If you manage to knock your attacker down, you must not hit him again or you risk being charged with assault. (Emphasis mine)
This is quite instructive if one wishes to understand the mentality of Progressives. To the typical Progressives, the elderly lady and the homeowner mentioned above were a threat to the monopoly power and the primacy of the State and deserved harsh punishment – even imprisonment – for exercising “privileges” not granted to them by the State. Keep in mind that Progressives have permitted the police to use deadly force against unarmed people, and that police officers regularly beat people brutally, and even the worst of these actions generally are excused or legally “justified” altogether, or the offending officer receives a wrist slap for punishment.
Ck Kelsey says
Tj here’s the thing about people with”governemnt education” only. The Christian schools teach people to believe in Christianity, The Catholic schools teach people to adhere to the teachings of the Pope .The Government schools teach people to worship ……The Government ! They don’t care about logic or the history of the protection of our rights in the Constitution,particularly the Bill of Rights,and the 2cnd Amendment in this case.The “Gun Control” crowd wants “Control ” more than anything else.